Energy Gel - Maltodextrin vs. Brown Rice Syrup - Triathlon Week

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
maltodextrin or real honey in others?
Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 12:41 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks

In my opinion I have no experience in either muck. Energy gel is
pablum for adults with weak teeth and sore gums. Eat something
crunchy - you're teeth will thank you.

R

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 9:41 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks

I don't know what the sugars are in brown rice syrup or honey.
Maltodextrin is established as easily digestible by most people. It
works for me. You'll have to test it for yourself. I think I
remember that all carbs are basically 4 Cal/gram, so on that primitive
basis they are all equal.

Digestibility is a different matter. A lot of people have stomach
upset with when there is too high a concentration of fructose. Good
drinks for me always had less than 2% for a 7% solution, but they did
have some fructose. One doc -- M Colgan, IIRC -- wrote that fructose
preferentially restored liver glycogen, and that is why it was
included. I don't know about that for racers, as you ought to be
burning more than you can restore anyway. (Post-race/train recovery
is another matter.)

For 7% solutions, I suppose basic glucose is good, although gatorade
which is sucrose seems fine. For concentrated drinks, bars, or gels,
I would look for maltodextrin as the primary energy content.

Make sure your frame is not a compact. You want a frame pump and
large 30oz Zefal bottles.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 12:06 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On Dec 12, 9:41 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> > health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> > maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> > Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>
> I don't know what the sugars are in brown rice syrup or honey.
> Maltodextrin is established as easily digestible by most people. It
> works for me. You'll have to test it for yourself. I think I
> remember that all carbs are basically 4 Cal/gram, so on that primitive
> basis they are all equal.
>
> Digestibility is a different matter. A lot of people have stomach
> upset with when there is too high a concentration of fructose. Good
> drinks for me always had less than 2% for a 7% solution, but they did
> have some fructose. One doc -- M Colgan, IIRC -- wrote that fructose
> preferentially restored liver glycogen, and that is why it was
> included. I don't know about that for racers, as you ought to be
> burning more than you can restore anyway. (Post-race/train recovery
> is another matter.)
>
> For 7% solutions, I suppose basic glucose is good, although gatorade
> which is sucrose seems fine. For concentrated drinks, bars, or gels,
> I would look for maltodextrin as the primary energy content.
>
> Make sure your frame is not a compact. You want a frame pump and
> large 30oz Zefal bottles.

Brown rice syrup is composed of about 50% complex carbohydrates that
don't digest especially rapidly but 45% of what's left is maltose
which is two glucose molecules strung together and then the remainder
is glucose. This is NOT a particularly good energy supply on the bike
because it causes a jump and subsequent drop in your blood sugar from
insulin.

Real(tm) honey is a third fructose and another third glucose. Another
10% is various other sugars none of which you want in your system if
you're making a sustained physical effort.

Maltodextrin is a polysaccharide that doesn't cause that insulin
problem.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>

Dude,

Why not save yourself the anguish of trying to figure out all that
nonsense and just cleave the oxygen atom on the hydroxide molecule in
the CLIF bar and run the whole thing through the accelerator at your
local universities physics department.

After doing that, drop the entire batch into a stainless tub with
liquid nitrogen to max out the carbohydrate density.

The night before a race, thaw it out. This will give you an extra 2.3
watts (sustained) during the Thursday night crit. You should be able to
see this on your SRM graphs.

That's what most people I know do.

Once you upgrade to Cat. 3, you'll need to move closer to an operational
nuclear reactor in order to get your hands on some uranium to split
atoms in order to harness energy from those CLIF bars more efficiently.

Magilla

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 12:50 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> On Dec 12, 12:06 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 9:41 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > > Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> > > health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> > > maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> > > Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>
> > I don't know what the sugars are in brown rice syrup or honey.
> > Maltodextrin is established as easily digestible by most people. It
> > works for me. You'll have to test it for yourself. I think I
> > remember that all carbs are basically 4 Cal/gram, so on that primitive
> > basis they are all equal.
>
> > Digestibility is a different matter. A lot of people have stomach
> > upset with when there is too high a concentration of fructose. Good
> > drinks for me always had less than 2% for a 7% solution, but they did
> > have some fructose. One doc -- M Colgan, IIRC -- wrote that fructose
> > preferentially restored liver glycogen, and that is why it was
> > included. I don't know about that for racers, as you ought to be
> > burning more than you can restore anyway. (Post-race/train recovery
> > is another matter.)
>
> > For 7% solutions, I suppose basic glucose is good, although gatorade
> > which is sucrose seems fine. For concentrated drinks, bars, or gels,
> > I would look for maltodextrin as the primary energy content.
>
> > Make sure your frame is not a compact. You want a frame pump and
> > large 30oz Zefal bottles.
>
> Brown rice syrup is composed of about 50% complex carbohydrates that
> don't digest especially rapidly but 45% of what's left is maltose
> which is two glucose molecules strung together and then the remainder
> is glucose. This is NOT a particularly good energy supply on the bike
> because it causes a jump and subsequent drop in your blood sugar from
> insulin.
>
> Real(tm) honey is a third fructose and another third glucose. Another
> 10% is various other sugars none of which you want in your system if
> you're making a sustained physical effort.

What is the other 24%? I can't use honey on a bike.

> Maltodextrin is a polysaccharide that doesn't cause that insulin
> problem.

Okay. In layman's terms (my terms), I call polysaccharides "complex
carbs." They have the advantage of not tasting sweet. UltraFuel, for
example, is mostly maltodextrin with a dash of simple sugars and fruit
flavoring added for taste. Otherwise it would be unbearably sweet.
(Even for me.)

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 3:05 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On Dec 12, 12:50 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 12:06 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 12, 9:41 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > > > Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> > > > health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> > > > maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> > > > Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>
> > > I don't know what the sugars are in brown rice syrup or honey.
> > > Maltodextrin is established as easily digestible by most people. It
> > > works for me. You'll have to test it for yourself. I think I
> > > remember that all carbs are basically 4 Cal/gram, so on that primitive
> > > basis they are all equal.
>
> > > Digestibility is a different matter. A lot of people have stomach
> > > upset with when there is too high a concentration of fructose. Good
> > > drinks for me always had less than 2% for a 7% solution, but they did
> > > have some fructose. One doc -- M Colgan, IIRC -- wrote that fructose
> > > preferentially restored liver glycogen, and that is why it was
> > > included. I don't know about that for racers, as you ought to be
> > > burning more than you can restore anyway. (Post-race/train recovery
> > > is another matter.)
>
> > > For 7% solutions, I suppose basic glucose is good, although gatorade
> > > which is sucrose seems fine. For concentrated drinks, bars, or gels,
> > > I would look for maltodextrin as the primary energy content.
>
> > > Make sure your frame is not a compact. You want a frame pump and
> > > large 30oz Zefal bottles.
>
> > Brown rice syrup is composed of about 50% complex carbohydrates that
> > don't digest especially rapidly but 45% of what's left is maltose
> > which is two glucose molecules strung together and then the remainder
> > is glucose. This is NOT a particularly good energy supply on the bike
> > because it causes a jump and subsequent drop in your blood sugar from
> > insulin.
>
> > Real(tm) honey is a third fructose and another third glucose. Another
> > 10% is various other sugars none of which you want in your system if
> > you're making a sustained physical effort.
>
> What is the other 24%? I can't use honey on a bike.

Water

> > Maltodextrin is a polysaccharide that doesn't cause that insulin
> > problem.
>
> Okay. In layman's terms (my terms), I call polysaccharides "complex
> carbs." They have the advantage of not tasting sweet. UltraFuel, for
> example, is mostly maltodextrin with a dash of simple sugars and fruit
> flavoring added for taste. Otherwise it would be unbearably sweet.
> (Even for me.)

Maltodextrin is a rapidly absorbed carb. It is absorbed as rapidly as
glucose without the insulin high-low. Hammer Gel for instance works
really well. One of the things about it is that you remain neutral so
it is difficult to understand that the stuff is actually working
unless you have experimented a lot to see how well it does work. Most
of the other gels have some glucose, caffeine, etc in there so that
you feel a shot after ingesting it and think that it is really hot
stuff. Problem is that it often has that run down shortly after the
high due to the insulin overload. Maltodextrin works without feeling
like it's working - you just seem to keep functioning at the same
level without the usual drop in energy.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
>> Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
>> health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
>> maltodextrin or real honey in others?
>> Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>>
>
>
> Dude,
>
> Why not save yourself the anguish of trying to figure out all that
> nonsense and just cleave the oxygen atom on the hydroxide molecule in
> the CLIF bar and run the whole thing through the accelerator at your
> local universities physics department.
>
> After doing that, drop the entire batch into a stainless tub with
> liquid nitrogen to max out the carbohydrate density.
>
> The night before a race, thaw it out. This will give you an extra 2.3
> watts (sustained) during the Thursday night crit. You should be able to
> see this on your SRM graphs.
>
> That's what most people I know do.
>
> Once you upgrade to Cat. 3, you'll need to move closer to an operational
> nuclear reactor in order to get your hands on some uranium to split
> atoms in order to harness energy from those CLIF bars more efficiently.
>
>
> Magilla
>
>
>
>
Thanks!

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:41:53 -0800 (PST), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

>Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
>health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
>maltodextrin or real honey in others?
>Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks

Try it and see what you like. In warm weather or in situations where
you'll use a lot of gels, I think less sweet is better as you can get
annoyed by sweet taste.

Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
fuel.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

<snip>
On Dec 12, 6:39 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
> them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
> fuel.

That's a good one...just like the guys who use testosterone, steroids,
blood (their own or someone else's), amphetemines, etc etc etc.
Just take it, don't think about it.
ABS

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 12, 7:39 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:41:53 -0800 (PST), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> >Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> >health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> >maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> >Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>
> Try it and see what you like. In warm weather or in situations where
> you'll use a lot of gels, I think less sweet is better as you can get
> annoyed by sweet taste.
>
> Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
> them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
> fuel.

I'm not sure I agree with your 'racing fuel' only declaration. I
generally get my calories during rides from drink mixes and an energy
bar now and then. But, I find that when doing base miles during the
winter if I drink enough liquid to get my calorie requirements from
drink mixes I overhydrate and therefore have to stop waaaay to often
to relieve myself. Something about the combination of reduced demands
for fluids coupled w/ the effects of the colder weather, but... who
wants to be looking for convenience stores or construction site
portapotties all the time???

So, I use gels during the winter a lot more than any other time since
I can get more calories w/ less fluids using gels than any other way.

S.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:11:30 -0800 (PST), Scott
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>On Dec 12, 7:39 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:41:53 -0800 (PST), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>> >Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
>> >health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
>> >maltodextrin or real honey in others?
>> >Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>>
>> Try it and see what you like. In warm weather or in situations where
>> you'll use a lot of gels, I think less sweet is better as you can get
>> annoyed by sweet taste.
>>
>> Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
>> them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
>> fuel.
>
>I'm not sure I agree with your 'racing fuel' only declaration. I
>generally get my calories during rides from drink mixes and an energy
>bar now and then. But, I find that when doing base miles during the
>winter if I drink enough liquid to get my calorie requirements from
>drink mixes I overhydrate and therefore have to stop waaaay to often
>to relieve myself. Something about the combination of reduced demands
>for fluids coupled w/ the effects of the colder weather, but... who
>wants to be looking for convenience stores or construction site
>portapotties all the time???

Eat normal solid food with fiber. more micronutrients, etc. Fruit,
bread, crackers, nuts, sandwiches, etc,

Gels (and some energy bars) have two big advantages over such food --
easier to carry/store and easier to digest. But if you're doing
endurance riding, normal food shouldn't be a problem and can be
healthier if you choose right. And cheaper.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 13, 9:18 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:11:30 -0800 (PST), Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> >On Dec 12, 7:39 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> >wrote:
> >> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:41:53 -0800 (PST), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> >> >Regarding energy gel packets such as Clif and others. Are their any
> >> >health and energy delivery benefits of brown rice syrup in Clif vs.
> >> >maltodextrin or real honey in others?
> >> >Please share your experiences and opinions. Thanks
>
> >> Try it and see what you like. In warm weather or in situations where
> >> you'll use a lot of gels, I think less sweet is better as you can get
> >> annoyed by sweet taste.
>
> >> Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
> >> them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
> >> fuel.
>
> >I'm not sure I agree with your 'racing fuel' only declaration. I
> >generally get my calories during rides from drink mixes and an energy
> >bar now and then. But, I find that when doing base miles during the
> >winter if I drink enough liquid to get my calorie requirements from
> >drink mixes I overhydrate and therefore have to stop waaaay to often
> >to relieve myself. Something about the combination of reduced demands
> >for fluids coupled w/ the effects of the colder weather, but... who
> >wants to be looking for convenience stores or construction site
> >portapotties all the time???
>
> Eat normal solid food with fiber. more micronutrients, etc. Fruit,
> bread, crackers, nuts, sandwiches, etc,
>
> Gels (and some energy bars) have two big advantages over such food --
> easier to carry/store and easier to digest. But if you're doing
> endurance riding, normal food shouldn't be a problem and can be
> healthier if you choose right. And cheaper. - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cheaper, yes... but still brings up the problem of requiring more
water to wash it down, and thus more stops. As for the simplicity of
use and ease of carrying them, nothing beats gels. Who wants to lug
peanut butter sandwiches around with them while riding?

Okay, don't answer that, I know there are folks out there w/ huge
packs hanging from their saddles who'll carry anything/everything.

Regardless, even with all the benefits to be derived from other
sources, gels are still an acceptable source of energy for 'other than
racing' situations. Maybe not the best choice, but certainly not such
a poor choice as to declare them fit for 'race use only'.

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Dec 13, 6:06 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> On Dec 12, 7:15 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> > On Dec 12, 6:39 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> > > Gels are racing fuel - only use them in training enough to get used to
> > > them to see what you like. Don't think about health effects of racing
> > > fuel.
>
> > That's a good one...just like the guys who use testosterone, steroids,
> > blood (their own or someone else's), amphetemines, etc etc etc.
> > Just take it, don't think about it.
> > ABS
>
> Obviously you haven't spent much time around here. John is the real
> thing - a good racer who is completely on the up and up.

My comment wasn't meant as an aspersion on anyone's
character, just a seemingly cavalier statement.
Obviously...um...I was wrong.
ABS

05-19-2008, 05:26 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:49:52 -0800 (PST), Scott
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Regardless, even with all the benefits to be derived from other
>sources, gels are still an acceptable source of energy for 'other than
>racing' situations. Maybe not the best choice, but certainly not such
>a poor choice as to declare them fit for 'race use only'.

Right. I'm only commenting on what is wise, not what is possible.