I suck at swimming... - Triathlon Week

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

I've read a couple books on swimming. one was specific to triathlon
swimming. I've tried the exercises and although probably haven't given it a
real spin, I am terrible. I can't breath. I can never seem to blow out under
water and can never seem to get my mouth above the water to breath. I get
way out of breath. Anyone have any good advice on how to be an "okay"
swimmer. I'd like to NOT do the backstroke on my next tri...

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

I've been learning to swim freestyle over the last few years as well.
It's not like biking and running where you just get out there and do it.
I think it's more like skiing or golf. There are lot's of fine points
that you have to put all together. I've taken a few masters classes at
the local YMCA which have been helpful.

Try to break it down and work at one thing at a time. Maybe start with
a kickboard. go slowly and practice staring at the bottom of the pool
blowing bubbles. Try to rotate your whole body to one side to breathe.
DONT lift your head. just get as much of your mouth to the side into
the air as you need to and breathe.

I find watching some of the videos of good swimmers on Youtube helpful.
Here's one. You don't need to go as fast as this Olympian freestyler
to start out though!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Good luck!

Capt. America wrote:
> I've read a couple books on swimming. one was specific to triathlon
> swimming. I've tried the exercises and although probably haven't given it a
> real spin, I am terrible. I can't breath. I can never seem to blow out under
> water and can never seem to get my mouth above the water to breath. I get
> way out of breath. Anyone have any good advice on how to be an "okay"
> swimmer. I'd like to NOT do the backstroke on my next tri...
>
>

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

On Jul 11, 10:19 am, Ira Hart <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu> wrote:
> I've been learning to swim freestyle over the last few years as well.
> It's not like biking and running where you just get out there and do it.
> I think it's more like skiing or golf. There are lot's of fine points
> that you have to put all together. I've taken a few masters classes at
> the local YMCA which have been helpful.
>
> Try to break it down and work at one thing at a time. Maybe start with
> a kickboard. go slowly and practice staring at the bottom of the pool
> blowing bubbles. Try to rotate your whole body to one side to breathe.
> DONT lift your head. just get as much of your mouth to the side into
> the air as you need to and breathe.
>
> I find watching some of the videos of good swimmers on Youtube helpful.
> Here's one. You don't need to go as fast as this Olympian freestyler
> to start out though!
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> Capt. America wrote:
> > I've read a couple books on swimming. one was specific to triathlon
> > swimming. I've tried the exercises and although probably haven't given it a
> > real spin, I am terrible. I can't breath. I can never seem to blow out under
> > water and can never seem to get my mouth above the water to breath. I get
> > way out of breath. Anyone have any good advice on how to be an "okay"
> > swimmer. I'd like to NOT do the backstroke on my next tri...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Check out this site....

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

Ira Hart <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu> wrote:

>I've been learning to swim freestyle over the last few years as well.
>It's not like biking and running where you just get out there and do it.
> I think it's more like skiing or golf. There are lot's of fine points
>that you have to put all together. I've taken a few masters classes at
>the local YMCA which have been helpful.

I agree

Swimming technique is TOUGH

I'm terrible at it.... much more suited to running and
biking

But...swimming makes me feel SO GOOD!! I really like
the suppleness and flexibility you get form swimming

I'm going to try exercise swimming by using a swimmer
snrokel

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

thanks for all the responses! i've watched the videos and looked at the
snorkel option. a buddy at work also mentioned it may be useful to train
with fins as well to help work on the breathing and upper body motion. may
try it.

"Ira Hart" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu> wrote in message
news:rs6li.818$uf2.453@llnews...
>
> I've been learning to swim freestyle over the last few years as well. It's
> not like biking and running where you just get out there and do it. I
> think it's more like skiing or golf. There are lot's of fine points that
> you have to put all together. I've taken a few masters classes at the
> local YMCA which have been helpful.
>
> Try to break it down and work at one thing at a time. Maybe start with a
> kickboard. go slowly and practice staring at the bottom of the pool
> blowing bubbles. Try to rotate your whole body to one side to breathe.
> DONT lift your head. just get as much of your mouth to the side into the
> air as you need to and breathe.
>
> I find watching some of the videos of good swimmers on Youtube helpful.
> Here's one. You don't need to go as fast as this Olympian freestyler to
> start out though!
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> Good luck!
>
> Capt. America wrote:
>> I've read a couple books on swimming. one was specific to triathlon
>> swimming. I've tried the exercises and although probably haven't given it
>> a real spin, I am terrible. I can't breath. I can never seem to blow out
>> under water and can never seem to get my mouth above the water to breath.
>> I get way out of breath. Anyone have any good advice on how to be an
>> "okay" swimmer. I'd like to NOT do the backstroke on my next tri...

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

A few more suggestions:

1) Apprehension is your likely issue. First I'd recommend trying to
float on your stomach (preferably in the ocean where it's easier) and
traking just a few strokes now and again. Try to relax, enjoy the
under water scenery. Once you learn you're not going to drown, you get
move on to swimming. PLEASE DON'T MISTAKE WHAT I'M SAYING. You may
think you're comfortable but be honest with yourself. If you're
struggling to get air, you're mentally on the verge of drowning and
will act like it.

2) Concerntrate on the exhale. Most people are so busy trying to get
air they forget to get the carbon dioxide loaded air out. This means
what they have in their lungs is de-oxygenated air which compounds the
feeling of panic. "Out with the bad, in with the good".

3) Repeat after me... "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Try to be
"smooth" in the water. If your stroke is choppy, you're wasting energy
trying to stay afloat rather than move forward.

4) Lastly but certainly not leastly, STOP KICKING!!! "WHAT!", you
say. I'm supposed to kick to help me move forward. Sure you are but
let's get get everything else in place, then we'll worry about the
kick. Here's why: most people kick to stay afloat, not move forward.
Which muscle group in you body uses the most oxygen? Yep! Your legs.
We want that precious air to keep us calm. We'll worry about the legs
later. Force your head down (YES DOWN) in the water to help keep your
legs up. This works. Give it a try. Use primarily your arms and
perhaps a small (it's called a 1-2) kick to keep your legs up. That's
only 3 kicks for each two arm cycles.

5) Be patient. The more you dread swimming, the worse you'll swim.
Embrace the opportunity to learn and keep after it. Swimming is by far
the most technical of the three disceplines. Have fun with it!

Scott

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

On Jul 21, 11:31 am, "[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> A few more suggestions:
>
> 1) Apprehension is your likely issue. First I'd recommend trying to
> float on your stomach (preferably in the ocean where it's easier) and
> traking just a few strokes now and again. Try to relax, enjoy the
> under water scenery. Once you learn you're not going to drown, you get
> move on to swimming. PLEASE DON'T MISTAKE WHAT I'M SAYING. You may
> think you're comfortable but be honest with yourself. If you're
> struggling to get air, you're mentally on the verge of drowning and
> will act like it.
>
> 2) Concerntrate on the exhale. Most people are so busy trying to get
> air they forget to get the carbon dioxide loaded air out. This means
> what they have in their lungs is de-oxygenated air which compounds the
> feeling of panic. "Out with the bad, in with the good".
>
> 3) Repeat after me... "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Try to be
> "smooth" in the water. If your stroke is choppy, you're wasting energy
> trying to stay afloat rather than move forward.
>
> 4) Lastly but certainly not leastly, STOP KICKING!!! "WHAT!", you
> say. I'm supposed to kick to help me move forward. Sure you are but
> let's get get everything else in place, then we'll worry about the
> kick. Here's why: most people kick to stay afloat, not move forward.
> Which muscle group in you body uses the most oxygen? Yep! Your legs.
> We want that precious air to keep us calm. We'll worry about the legs
> later. Force your head down (YES DOWN) in the water to help keep your
> legs up. This works. Give it a try. Use primarily your arms and
> perhaps a small (it's called a 1-2) kick to keep your legs up. That's
> only 3 kicks for each two arm cycles.
>
> 5) Be patient. The more you dread swimming, the worse you'll swim.
> Embrace the opportunity to learn and keep after it. Swimming is by far
> the most technical of the three disceplines. Have fun with it!
>
> Scott

I am RIGHT there with Capt. America ... I did my first triathlon in
June and I was slower than every other person in my age group (argh)
and had to do back and side stroke the whole way because I was just
panicked about getting my face in the open (lake) water. It's just
really vast under there and I am (like you said) mentally drowning in
the first fifteen seconds. I'm frustrated because the other beginner
in our tri-group has grown leaps and bounds and finished that first
swim in a respectable time. We're the same age and have similar form
(she's maybe a little stronger in her upper body than me) but my
downfall is that I have so may drowning hang-ups that I seem to
hyperventilate underwater. Here's my somewhat related inquiry ... my
second triathlon is in late Aug and my goal is to not be last in my
age group for swimming and just to see a better time for the whole
thing. It's just a sprint so we're looking at a half mile swim. I
have the opportunity next week to swim in a very small lake next week
as much as I want. Granted, I live at sea level and this lake is at
4K ft but hopefully that won't be a giant difference for my training.
Anyway, any advice for getting through this week of practice - I think
it's a good opportunity if I use it well ... My spouse and I are both
weak swimmers so one is going to kayak next to the other for each
practice swim just to ensure safety (and we both have shorty wetsuits
too). I love the idea of just hovering there enjoying the scenery (or
the vast green icky lake water in my case!). I'll try that for
sure.

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

katejdi wrote:
> On Jul 21, 11:31 am, "[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> wrote:
>> A few more suggestions:
>>
>> 1) Apprehension is your likely issue. First I'd recommend trying to
>> float on your stomach (preferably in the ocean where it's easier) and
>> traking just a few strokes now and again. Try to relax, enjoy the
>> under water scenery. Once you learn you're not going to drown, you get
>> move on to swimming. PLEASE DON'T MISTAKE WHAT I'M SAYING. You may
>> think you're comfortable but be honest with yourself. If you're
>> struggling to get air, you're mentally on the verge of drowning and
>> will act like it.
>>
>> 2) Concerntrate on the exhale. Most people are so busy trying to get
>> air they forget to get the carbon dioxide loaded air out. This means
>> what they have in their lungs is de-oxygenated air which compounds the
>> feeling of panic. "Out with the bad, in with the good".
>>
>> 3) Repeat after me... "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Try to be
>> "smooth" in the water. If your stroke is choppy, you're wasting energy
>> trying to stay afloat rather than move forward.
>>
>> 4) Lastly but certainly not leastly, STOP KICKING!!! "WHAT!", you
>> say. I'm supposed to kick to help me move forward. Sure you are but
>> let's get get everything else in place, then we'll worry about the
>> kick. Here's why: most people kick to stay afloat, not move forward.
>> Which muscle group in you body uses the most oxygen? Yep! Your legs.
>> We want that precious air to keep us calm. We'll worry about the legs
>> later. Force your head down (YES DOWN) in the water to help keep your
>> legs up. This works. Give it a try. Use primarily your arms and
>> perhaps a small (it's called a 1-2) kick to keep your legs up. That's
>> only 3 kicks for each two arm cycles.
>>
>> 5) Be patient. The more you dread swimming, the worse you'll swim.
>> Embrace the opportunity to learn and keep after it. Swimming is by far
>> the most technical of the three disceplines. Have fun with it!
>>
>> Scott
>
> I am RIGHT there with Capt. America ... I did my first triathlon in
> June and I was slower than every other person in my age group (argh)
> and had to do back and side stroke the whole way because I was just
> panicked about getting my face in the open (lake) water. It's just
> really vast under there and I am (like you said) mentally drowning in
> the first fifteen seconds. I'm frustrated because the other beginner
> in our tri-group has grown leaps and bounds and finished that first
> swim in a respectable time. We're the same age and have similar form
> (she's maybe a little stronger in her upper body than me) but my
> downfall is that I have so may drowning hang-ups that I seem to
> hyperventilate underwater. Here's my somewhat related inquiry ... my
> second triathlon is in late Aug and my goal is to not be last in my
> age group for swimming and just to see a better time for the whole
> thing. It's just a sprint so we're looking at a half mile swim. I
> have the opportunity next week to swim in a very small lake next week
> as much as I want. Granted, I live at sea level and this lake is at
> 4K ft but hopefully that won't be a giant difference for my training.
> Anyway, any advice for getting through this week of practice - I think
> it's a good opportunity if I use it well ... My spouse and I are both
> weak swimmers so one is going to kayak next to the other for each
> practice swim just to ensure safety (and we both have shorty wetsuits
> too). I love the idea of just hovering there enjoying the scenery (or
> the vast green icky lake water in my case!). I'll try that for
> sure.
>

Hi,

I totally agree about enjoying the surroundings during open water
swimming. In training I imagine that I'm in a Jacques Cousteau special.
This only works for me if the water is clear, though, but pretty much
all of the lakes around here have clear water. I have seen schools of
fish and have even found little treasures (100 year-old bottles) during
my training swims. I even have learned to like weeds (it's all of the
Jacques Cousteau mindset) :)

In actual open water events I don't really have the same laid-back
mindset, but I've become comfortable in the water so I don't freak out.

I would strongly recommend to get on the outside edge of the group
during the swim to get away from the congestion. I still position
myself somewhat off center just because I don't like being swum over.
It doesn't freak me out when it happens because I'm now comfortable in
the water, but I'd still just as soon avoid it.

I guess that I end up swimming a little further than those that take a
direct line through the masses, but I still finish around the middle of
the pack and exit the water in a good mood.

As for your next week swimming in the small lake, it's good that you
have a partner to paddle alongside (or behind or nearby) for safety. Be
sure to bring a life jacket for him to throw in case you need it (you
probably won't but better safe than sorry). Just swim around and look
around and enjoy being in an environment that most people never see.

I think that people forget that you can do open water swimming without
going in very deep. When I go for an open water swim by myself, I swim
along the shore in chest-deep water. When I swim with friends, we go
into the deep water but keep an eye on each other. If I get a cramp in
deep water, I just float or tread water until it goes away. I've never
understood the "getting a cramp and drowning" thing.

The absolute worst thing you can do while swimming is to gulp a mouthful
of water down your windpipe. There is an involuntary reaction that can
occur that causes you to lose consciousness when that happens. So if
someone accidentally pushes your head under water, don't gasp. Just
keep your mouth closed until you resurface in a couple of seconds.

Well, that's my two-cent's worth. Have fun next week. Think of it as
fun, not training. Relax and enjoy yourself!

Bob

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

> Well, that's my two-cent's worth. Have fun next week. Think of it as
> fun, not training. Relax and enjoy yourself!
>
> Bob

I'd go along with that. To add my two cents worth, I posted a message here
along similar lines a while back and a couple of people responded with
'Total Immersion', which I'd never heard of, but I googled it, got the book,
and I have to say it's worked for me. Having said which, by the sounds of
things I started out a more confident (and probably better) swimmer than
you - not good, but certainly adequate+, and pretty confident in the water -
so it may not work quite as well for you. But worth at least looking into, I
would've thought. Good luck!

Alan

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

On Jul 24, 8:59 am, "spokes" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> > Well, that's my two-cent's worth. Have fun next week. Think of it as
> > fun, not training. Relax and enjoy yourself!
>
> > Bob
>
> I'd go along with that. To add my two cents worth, I posted a message here
> along similar lines a while back and a couple of people responded with
> 'Total Immersion', which I'd never heard of, but I googled it, got the book,
> and I have to say it's worked for me. Having said which, by the sounds of
> things I started out a more confident (and probably better) swimmer than
> you - not good, but certainly adequate+, and pretty confident in the water -
> so it may not work quite as well for you. But worth at least looking into, I
> would've thought. Good luck!
>
> Alan

Thanks! I'll check it out - you are right that I'm quite a beginner
but I'll give it a shot. My lake trip has been moved up to later
today so we'll see! KateJDI

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

I must say that subscribing to this group has been great. thanks for
everyone pitching in with info. it's very helpful!

I wish I lived near the ocean as it's easier to float in salt water. I have
to settle with a pool since i live in IN and there aren't a ton of places to
open water swim. I've read total immersion a couple of times (including the
one specifically for open water swimming) and although helpful, you really
have to take your time with that in order for it to fully work. I'm training
for an event that is about 1 1/2 weeks away so I can't spend a lot of time
floating (although would be the 'right' thing to do).

I did however take the advice of a coworker who is a good swimmer that
suggested I get some training fins to train with. I went and bought a pair
for $19 and used them. Not on every swim, but on some swims. what that
allowed me to do is slow my kicking down (instead of kicking like a maniac
to stay afloat, even though kicking should not serve that purpose) and
concentrate on rolling my body to get air. It has helped tremendously and
allowed me to even swim 50 meters at a time without touching down without
fins when I couldn't even swim 15 meters before hand. my form is still off
(I still lift my head to breath) but I can better work on technique with one
less thing to think about.

what I will say is don't swich up during a workout. that is, don't swim with
fins and then take them off in the same workout. It is a rude awakening on
how slow you really are.

I certainly am not a pro at this yet, but I can say it did help me. Still
working on it.

"katejdi" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1185393913.962288.96840@x35g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
> On Jul 24, 8:59 am, "spokes" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> wrote:
>> > Well, that's my two-cent's worth. Have fun next week. Think of it as
>> > fun, not training. Relax and enjoy yourself!
>>
>> > Bob
>>
>> I'd go along with that. To add my two cents worth, I posted a message
>> here
>> along similar lines a while back and a couple of people responded with
>> 'Total Immersion', which I'd never heard of, but I googled it, got the
>> book,
>> and I have to say it's worked for me. Having said which, by the sounds of
>> things I started out a more confident (and probably better) swimmer than
>> you - not good, but certainly adequate+, and pretty confident in the
>> water -
>> so it may not work quite as well for you. But worth at least looking
>> into, I
>> would've thought. Good luck!
>>
>> Alan
>
> Thanks! I'll check it out - you are right that I'm quite a beginner
> but I'll give it a shot. My lake trip has been moved up to later
> today so we'll see! KateJDI
>

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

Total Immersion, Terry Laughlin wih John Delves (Simon & Schuster)

"Capt. America" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. ..
> I've read a couple books on swimming. one was specific to triathlon
> swimming. I've tried the exercises and although probably haven't given it
> a real spin, I am terrible. I can't breath. I can never seem to blow out
> under water and can never seem to get my mouth above the water to breath.
> I get way out of breath. Anyone have any good advice on how to be an
> "okay" swimmer. I'd like to NOT do the backstroke on my next tri...
>

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

I've read total immersion a couple of times (including the
> one specifically for open water swimming) and although helpful, you really
> have to take your time with that in order for it to fully work. I'm
> training for an event that is about 1 1/2 weeks away so I can't spend a
> lot of time floating (although would be the 'right' thing to do).

Glad it's sort of working. I have to say I can't do it properly at all, 'cos
I'm a sinker...all those exercises on floating and finding your sweet spot
are totally wasted on me - if I don't keep paddling, I end up vertical! The
useful things I *did* get out of total immmersion were probably three: the
picture that compares a barge in the water and a clipper, which sticks in my
mind and helps me keep rolling so I'm swimming on my sides rather than
pushing a bow wave; the idea that your arms' most important function is to
help you keep long and thin in the water, rather than pulling you thru' it;
and the idea of 'reaching with every stroke...as tho' you're trying to get
something off a high shelf'. I'm still a long way from being any kind of a
good TI swimmer, but I'm also sure I can now swim quite a lot further and
faster than I could before - and crucially, without any massive discomfort
or strain. Anyway, we shall see - my event is this weekend: a mile in the
London docks. Hai carumba!

Keep long & thin!

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

"spokes" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> I've read total immersion a couple of times (including the
>> one specifically for open water swimming) and although helpful, you
>> really have to take your time with that in order for it to fully work.
>> I'm training for an event that is about 1 1/2 weeks away so I can't spend
>> a lot of time floating (although would be the 'right' thing to do).
>
> Glad it's sort of working. I have to say I can't do it properly at all,
> 'cos I'm a sinker...all those exercises on floating and finding your sweet
> spot are totally wasted on me - if I don't keep paddling, I end up
> vertical! The useful things I *did* get out of total immmersion were
> probably three: the picture that compares a barge in the water and a
> clipper, which sticks in my mind and helps me keep rolling so I'm swimming
> on my sides rather than pushing a bow wave; the idea that your arms' most
> important function is to help you keep long and thin in the water, rather
> than pulling you thru' it; and the idea of 'reaching with every
> stroke...as tho' you're trying to get something off a high shelf'. I'm
> still a long way from being any kind of a good TI swimmer, but I'm also
> sure I can now swim quite a lot further and faster than I could before -
> and crucially, without any massive discomfort or strain. Anyway, we shall
> see - my event is this weekend: a mile in the London docks. Hai carumba!
>
> Keep long & thin!
>
The first time I tried TI, I had so many things on the brain, none of which
I had done before, I almost drowned. Push your chest down, long and thin,
stay on your side, reeeeach, hmmm, what am I forgetting??? Oh yeah (glub)
breathing!

JC

09-03-2007, 12:57 AM

On Jul 30, 10:21 am, "Joe" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> "spokes" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>
> > I've read total immersion a couple of times (including the
> >> one specifically for open water swimming) and although helpful, you
> >> really have to take your time with that in order for it to fully work.
> >> I'm training for an event that is about 1 1/2 weeks away so I can't spend
> >> a lot of time floating (although would be the 'right' thing to do).
>
> > Glad it's sort of working. I have to say I can't do it properly at all,
> > 'cos I'm a sinker...all those exercises on floating and finding your sweet
> > spot are totally wasted on me - if I don't keep paddling, I end up
> > vertical! The useful things I *did* get out of total immmersion were
> > probably three: the picture that compares a barge in the water and a
> > clipper, which sticks in my mind and helps me keep rolling so I'm swimming
> > on my sides rather than pushing a bow wave; the idea that your arms' most
> > important function is to help you keep long and thin in the water, rather
> > than pulling you thru' it; and the idea of 'reaching with every
> > stroke...as tho' you're trying to get something off a high shelf'. I'm
> > still a long way from being any kind of a good TI swimmer, but I'm also
> > sure I can now swim quite a lot further and faster than I could before -
> > and crucially, without any massive discomfort or strain. Anyway, we shall
> > see - my event is this weekend: a mile in the London docks. Hai carumba!
>
> > Keep long & thin!
>
> The first time I tried TI, I had so many things on the brain, none of which
> I had done before, I almost drowned. Push your chest down, long and thin,
> stay on your side, reeeeach, hmmm, what am I forgetting??? Oh yeah (glub)
> breathing!
>
> JC

>From a guy who considers himself a bike-run specialist...swimming
takes a lot of getting used to. My coach (who happens to be one of my
running athletes, a business partner and a friend) teaches/coaches
youth and masters based on TI.

Rolling from side to side definitely helps the breathing issue. I've
started to hit the pool on my own 1x/week in order to swim at least a
mile nonstop...on top of the 1700-2000 yards I get in 2x/weekly
workouts. The more you get in the water, the more comfortable you'll
get with the concept of swimming. If you focus on one thing at a time
all of the TI stuff will imprint itself on your brain. Eventually, I
hope this will transfer over into "happy swimming" in open
water...which is another story altogether.

Bottom line: Relax and have fun. You're doing more than the average
bear will ever think to try...or is that "tri?"
"Coach Mike"