Steel frame Specialzed Allez Pro vs new bike - Triathlon Week

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

13-05.-2004 11:53 PM

I have an older model steel/alloy frame (aluminum fork) Specialized
Allez Pro. I love this bike to ride. I've always believed "it's the
carpenter, not the tools"....having said that....I'm doing ironman
Wisconsin in Sept., and love triathlon. I'm wondering whether for long
distance riding the steel frame is a waste of energy? It's heavy and my
legs are fatigued for the run when doing triathlon. Will a lighter
aluminun or carbon frame bike help me on hills? I'm female, 42, 5'8"
130lbs. ( 56cm frame) I've been working on increasing core strength and
flexibility. My 40K triathlon times on a relatively flat course average
1hr15 to 1hr20, 10K run time 45-49 mins. Would a newer bike help me or
am I wasting my money? If I buy something newer.... Dura-ace vs Shimano
Ultegra? My budget is limited. Should I invest in getting a higher
quality wheel set? Bladed spokes? Road bike vs tri bike? Although I do
triathlon I like the long distances and spend many hours riding. I love
my current bike so I figure "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I've been
getting feedback from people that I might want to consider investing in
a new one. I'm leaning toward buying a TREK 5200 or GIANT TCR. If I buy
a new bike it will be a big investment for me. My budget is about $3000
Canadian. (I think that's about $2200US) Is my Specialized Allez Pro
worth anything? I would never sell it, I love it too much. Has anyone
else ridden the older model one, and what do you think? Is it a good
bike? Will a new bike have the same feel and ride? A very famous man
said a very famous quote “It’s not about the bike.” Is that true, and to
what point?? I want to be "worthy of my bike" Thanks for your help :-)

--

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

Here is my 2 cents worth.

First thing, in my opinion, if you are 5' 8" and riding a 56 frame, I think
the bike is two big for you. Improper fit could be part of the reason you
feel fatigued after the bike portion of a tri.

I would suggest that you go to a good bike shop, and have a tech measured
you up, and recommend a size. Maybe even put you on a trainer.

$3000.00 will get you a pretty nice bike. I think Giant has a carbon frame
decked out with Ultegra for about that price. I am pretty sure that as an
amateur, that's all the bike you'll ever need.

Jim

"nightowl" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:vFYoc.10281$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> 13-05.-2004 11:53 PM
>
>
> I have an older model steel/alloy frame (aluminum fork) Specialized
> Allez Pro. I love this bike to ride. I've always believed "it's the
> carpenter, not the tools"....having said that....I'm doing ironman
> Wisconsin in Sept., and love triathlon. I'm wondering whether for long
> distance riding the steel frame is a waste of energy? It's heavy and my
> legs are fatigued for the run when doing triathlon. Will a lighter
> aluminun or carbon frame bike help me on hills? I'm female, 42, 5'8"
> 130lbs. ( 56cm frame) I've been working on increasing core strength and
> flexibility. My 40K triathlon times on a relatively flat course average
> 1hr15 to 1hr20, 10K run time 45-49 mins. Would a newer bike help me or
> am I wasting my money? If I buy something newer.... Dura-ace vs Shimano
> Ultegra? My budget is limited. Should I invest in getting a higher
> quality wheel set? Bladed spokes? Road bike vs tri bike? Although I do
> triathlon I like the long distances and spend many hours riding. I love
> my current bike so I figure "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I've been
> getting feedback from people that I might want to consider investing in
> a new one. I'm leaning toward buying a TREK 5200 or GIANT TCR. If I buy
> a new bike it will be a big investment for me. My budget is about $3000
> Canadian. (I think that's about $2200US) Is my Specialized Allez Pro
> worth anything? I would never sell it, I love it too much. Has anyone
> else ridden the older model one, and what do you think? Is it a good
> bike? Will a new bike have the same feel and ride? A very famous man
> said a very famous quote "It's not about the bike." Is that true, and to
> what point?? I want to be "worthy of my bike" Thanks for your help :-)
>
>
>
> --
>
>

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

nightowl <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<vFYoc.10281$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>. ..
> 13-05.-2004 11:53 PM
>
>
> I have an older model steel/alloy frame (aluminum fork) Specialized
> Allez Pro. I love this bike to ride. I've always believed "it's the
> carpenter, not the tools"

<SNIP>

You could have stopped there... : )

There is no pecking order of materials that makes one inherently
better than another across all applications. That is a blowhard way
of saying, steel may be the "best" material for you and your
circumstances.

Other than watching out for signs of rust, you don't have to baby
steel. It is highly repairable also.

Like a car, an exotic bike is often more of a trophy than a necessity.
I do not deny that there is often a placebo effect to having a fancy
ride though. : )

If you do get the bike, don't be concerned with being "...worthy of
the bike." Focus on having a race that is worthy of your preparation.

rsquared

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

Like Jim Gosse said, I would suggest (if you're serious about looking at a
new bike) you go to a good bike shop and get fitted for a new bike. They'll
also probably make a couple recommendations on manufacturers that match your
build and size best. Then, test some and see what you think. If the feel
is that much better, than go for it. I would suggest Ultegra over Dura-Ace,
only because I don't think that the step up in quality nearly merits the
increase in price. Good luck!

--
Frank W. Marrs III
Georgia Institute of Technology
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
<omit "spamguard" to email>

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

My $0.02 -

I also agree that your frame is too big, but hard to argue with your
years of supposed comfort in riding this bike. I am 5-10 and that is my
frame size, although I think the Specialized is a sloping top tube, so
meaurements may not be the same. Definitely try a good bike shop (most
dedicated tri shops are better than bike shops) - for reference, my
last bike fitting took over an hour. I would NOT suggest moving to a
steep angle (78 degrees or so) full-on tri bike for your only bike -
stick with traditional road geometry (like a 73 degree seat tube angle
- just move your seat as far forward as you can in the rails for a tri
when aero).

I am only going to comment on materials (your question) - YOU have to
decide if you need a new bike! Based on what you said and "intuition", I
would go for it.....

Most agree that steel rides the best. Hard to find a nice, new steel
bike (2 come to mind: Guru "new steel" from Canada, and of course,
Waterford - way out of your price range). You will probably not like
an aluminum bike's ride, although it will likely be much lighter and
very inexpensive. Not great for long rides of 100 plus miles routinely
and not very durable. Carbon bikes ride nice and are light and
relatively inexpensive, hence the new slew of them - not too sure
about their durability since I have been through carbone forks and
seat posts already.

The best material for you is probably titanium though. It rides similar
to steel, is very light, and is the most durable of all the frame
materials (since you seem to keep your bikes for a while). Also, since
you live in Canada and likely ride in the wet/snow - it will never
rust. OK so why not? Price is the main reason. I have a steel bike,
aluminum for racing, and had a carbon bike (Griffin). My favorite (and
current high mileage bike) is a Litespeed Vortex. I absolutely love it.
I hate riding something so "ostentacious" and "common", but really is
great. I even took all the decals off for a while, but evetually put
them back on.

What I'm getting at is: see if you can ride a titanium bike (litespeed,
seven, whatever) for a good, long test ride. Hit some rough pavement
hard, then cruise easy. Climb on it - try to get the thing to flex
under load. You will see what I mean. Should ride like your beloved
steel, but "feel" faster and lighter ('cause it is). Figure out your
size and maybe consider a used one. Since the frame never wears out,
you can spec it (Ultegra is fine by the way) how you want. A used
titanium bike would likely have Dura Ace or Record anyway. Should be in
the $2500 used range too.

Wow, I had no intention of this novel .....

--

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

"rroof" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:IzOpc.30293$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> My $0.02 -
>
> I also agree that your frame is too big, but hard to argue with your
> years of supposed comfort in riding this bike. I am 5-10 and that is my
> frame size, although I think the Specialized is a sloping top tube, so
> meaurements may not be the same. Definitely try a good bike shop (most
> dedicated tri shops are better than bike shops) - for reference, my
> last bike fitting took over an hour. I would NOT suggest moving to a
> steep angle (78 degrees or so) full-on tri bike for your only bike -
> stick with traditional road geometry (like a 73 degree seat tube angle
> - just move your seat as far forward as you can in the rails for a tri
> when aero).
>
> I am only going to comment on materials (your question) - YOU have to
> decide if you need a new bike! Based on what you said and "intuition", I
> would go for it.....
>
> Most agree that steel rides the best. Hard to find a nice, new steel
> bike (2 come to mind: Guru "new steel" from Canada, and of course,
> Waterford - way out of your price range). You will probably not like
> an aluminum bike's ride, although it will likely be much lighter and
> very inexpensive. Not great for long rides of 100 plus miles routinely
> and not very durable. Carbon bikes ride nice and are light and
> relatively inexpensive, hence the new slew of them - not too sure
> about their durability since I have been through carbone forks and
> seat posts already.
>
> The best material for you is probably titanium though. It rides similar
> to steel, is very light, and is the most durable of all the frame
> materials (since you seem to keep your bikes for a while). Also, since
> you live in Canada and likely ride in the wet/snow - it will never
> rust. OK so why not? Price is the main reason. I have a steel bike,
> aluminum for racing, and had a carbon bike (Griffin). My favorite (and
> current high mileage bike) is a Litespeed Vortex. I absolutely love it.
> I hate riding something so "ostentacious" and "common", but really is
> great. I even took all the decals off for a while, but evetually put
> them back on.
>
> What I'm getting at is: see if you can ride a titanium bike (litespeed,
> seven, whatever) for a good, long test ride. Hit some rough pavement
> hard, then cruise easy. Climb on it - try to get the thing to flex
> under load. You will see what I mean. Should ride like your beloved
> steel, but "feel" faster and lighter ('cause it is). Figure out your
> size and maybe consider a used one. Since the frame never wears out,
> you can spec it (Ultegra is fine by the way) how you want. A used
> titanium bike would likely have Dura Ace or Record anyway. Should be in
> the $2500 used range too.
>
> Wow, I had no intention of this novel .....

Well, I'll write the sequel!

I second the rec for Litespeed ti......I've had my LS tri bike for 10 years
and am still loving it.......and I recently got a LS Tuscany (got a great
deal last fall on a 2002 closeout from Colorado Cyclist) for more comfort on
long rides..........also I joined a club and was tired of the looks my tri
bike and my cheap old steel bike were getting :-). Why do you call your
Vortex ostentatious though?

Also, like the OP, my old road bike (a $350 1988 Centurion steel bike which
I adored and got many 1000's of miles of riding and racing from....also a
box full of age-group awards) was *way* too big for me.....56 and I am
really a 52-53 I found out later. I felt comfortable on the bike and at
first my new bike felt too small but now I feel completely comfortable and
am riding faster and more efficiently, esp on hills. Comfort is a relative
term......I think you just compensate.....for example on the old too-big
bike I spent a lot of time sitting up on the handlebars because the drops
were just too far away!

HTH. Have fun.

Susan in LA

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

And remember, this is just my (and Susan's) recs:

1- Get a good fit (esp road vs. tri geometry)

2 Go titanium! (probably need to go used for $ though)

3 Check out a Litespeed Tuscany (road) or Saber (tri)

See you on the road!

--

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

Well, I'll write the sequel!

I second the rec for Litespeed ti......I've had my LS tri bike for 10
years and am still loving it.......and I recently got a LS Tuscany (got
a great deal last fall on a 2002 closeout from Colorado Cyclist) for
more comfort on long rides..........also I joined a club and was tired
of the looks my tri bike and my cheap old steel bike were getting :-).
Why do you call your Vortex ostentatious though?

Also, like the OP, my old road bike (a $350 1988 Centurion steel bike
which I adored and got many 1000's of miles of riding and racing
from....also a box full of age-group awards) was *way* too big for
me.....56 and I am really a 52-53 I found out later. I felt comfortable
on the bike and at first my new bike felt too small but now I feel
completely comfortable and am riding faster and more efficiently, esp on
hills. Comfort is a relative term......I think you just
compensate.....for example on the old too-big bike I spent a lot of time
sitting up on the handlebars because the drops were just too far away!

HTH. Have fun.

Susan in LA

Well said Susan about the bike fit - that is probably exactly what she
is experiencing. I often see ladies on bikes just a bit too large,
although they seem to be riding fine, they could likely be even better,
especially in the hills.

I only say "ostentatious" because a new Vortex in full Campy Record
carbon (like mine) runs close to 7K. I am also only 34 and many of my
"road" buddies also know I have another triathlon bike that is also
quite pricey. I won't get into my cars - I happen to be a surgeon, so
the bikes costs are negligible. Most of my cyclist/tri friends don't
know my profession though as I just want to enjoy my time in the saddle
with them. I also obviously look like a triathlete which tends to turn
off the "roadies". First impressions are just hard to get over. I just
don't think the Vortex helps much, that's all.

Speaking of your Tuscany, that is exactly the bike that I think she
should look for - perfect, classic geometry and compliant 3/2.5 Titanium
with a little higher head tube. The Vortex is all 6/4 with road race
geometry. The wheelbase is so short, I often rub my shoe on the wheel
with quick transitions and the head tube is about as short as possible.
The Blade is way overrated and pricey. The Saber would also be good for
her, but the seat angle is pretty aggressive - depends upon her fitting.

OK, here is what you need to read after all the above dribble:

And remember, this is just my (and Susan's) recs:

--

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

"rroof" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:79ktc.14419$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> Well said Susan about the bike fit - that is probably exactly what she
> is experiencing. I often see ladies on bikes just a bit too large,
> although they seem to be riding fine, they could likely be even better,
> especially in the hills.
>
> I only say "ostentatious" because a new Vortex in full Campy Record
> carbon (like mine) runs close to 7K. I am also only 34 and many of my
> "road" buddies also know I have another triathlon bike that is also
> quite pricey. I won't get into my cars - I happen to be a surgeon, so
> the bikes costs are negligible. Most of my cyclist/tri friends don't
> know my profession though as I just want to enjoy my time in the saddle
> with them.

Well, at least you can afford your pricey rigs.....in contrast to a young
triathlete I knew 10 years ago who rode a 5K bike but lived in his van. He
was just waiting for the right sponsor to come along. Actually I kind of
admired his prioritization skills.

> I also obviously look like a triathlete which tends to turn
> off the "roadies".

Somehow they always just *know* you're a triathlete, don't they? They can
smell it or something. :-) I thought I would fit in pretty well with my new
Tuscany (no aerobar!) and my club kit but they knew right away.....it was
the single-strap shoes and the Bento Box.

> First impressions are just hard to get over. I just
> don't think the Vortex helps much, that's all.
>
> Speaking of your Tuscany, that is exactly the bike that I think she
> should look for - perfect, classic geometry and compliant 3/2.5 Titanium
> with a little higher head tube. The Vortex is all 6/4 with road race
> geometry. The wheelbase is so short, I often rub my shoe on the wheel
> with quick transitions and the head tube is about as short as possible.
> The Blade is way overrated and pricey. The Saber would also be good for
> her, but the seat angle is pretty aggressive - depends upon her fitting.
>
> OK, here is what you need to read after all the above dribble:
>
> And remember, this is just my (and Susan's) recs:

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)....literally!

08-23-2004, 06:39 PM

Somehow they always just *know* you're a triathlete, don't they? They
can smell it or something. :-) I thought I would fit in pretty well with
my new Tuscany (no aerobar!) and my club kit but they knew right
away.....it was the single- strap shoes and the Bento Box.

Now that is funny! :D They can probably smell the Bodyglide -

I do, of course, have a Bento Box, but I purposely left it off the
Vortex. I did, however, forget about my single strap shoes! That must
have been the tip-off! ;)

Too funny ...

--