Definition of strokes per length ? - Triathlon Week

04-30-2005, 06:21 AM

Sorry for asking a rudimentary question but I see triathlon
swimming articles everywhere talking about reducing the
strokes per length, but they don't actually define 'spl'
very well.

I read an article where it was said that 21 strokes per length
is too much and the author has 13 ! Surely he is not talking
about a 50 metre swimming pool ? (I would have assumed
that if you were going to choose a standard pool length it
would be the Olympic distance pool)

And do you define a 'stroke' as each left arm pull and each
right arm pull ? Or does the combination of one pull with
the left arm followed by one pull with the right constitute
one complete 'stroke' ?

I swim a 50 metre pool. For freestyle, I breathe with every
left stroke. On a good day, I take 21 strokes with my left
arm and 21 strokes with my right arm - therefore taking 21
breaths - to cross the pool.
I'm really worried that this would actually count as
42 spl by the definition used by everybody in which case
I'm doing something very wrong.

Thank you to anybody who can clarify this for me.

Heather

04-30-2005, 07:23 AM

On 4/30/05 8:21 AM, in article
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ],
"[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

> Sorry for asking a rudimentary question but I see triathlon
> swimming articles everywhere talking about reducing the
> strokes per length, but they don't actually define 'spl'
> very well.
>
> I read an article where it was said that 21 strokes per length
> is too much and the author has 13 ! Surely he is not talking
> about a 50 metre swimming pool ? (I would have assumed
> that if you were going to choose a standard pool length it
> would be the Olympic distance pool)
>
> And do you define a 'stroke' as each left arm pull and each
> right arm pull ? Or does the combination of one pull with
> the left arm followed by one pull with the right constitute
> one complete 'stroke' ?
>
> I swim a 50 metre pool. For freestyle, I breathe with every
> left stroke. On a good day, I take 21 strokes with my left
> arm and 21 strokes with my right arm - therefore taking 21
> breaths - to cross the pool.
> I'm really worried that this would actually count as
> 42 spl by the definition used by everybody in which case
> I'm doing something very wrong.
>
> Thank you to anybody who can clarify this for me.
>
> Heather
>

I would label your stroke count as 42. Our master's swim class does Distance
Per Stroke (DPS, essentially the same thing as SPL) drills to reduce our
stroke counts across our 25 yard pool. I used to be an 18, which is way too
high. Now, I'm 13 & getting better. Each arm entry into the water counts as
a stroke.

Tom Fischer

04-30-2005, 08:37 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1114867261.899300.267300
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Sorry for asking a rudimentary question but I see triathlon
> swimming articles everywhere talking about reducing the
> strokes per length, but they don't actually define 'spl'
> very well.
>
> I read an article where it was said that 21 strokes per length
> is too much and the author has 13 ! Surely he is not talking
> about a 50 metre swimming pool ? (I would have assumed
> that if you were going to choose a standard pool length it
> would be the Olympic distance pool)
>
> And do you define a 'stroke' as each left arm pull and each
> right arm pull ? Or does the combination of one pull with
> the left arm followed by one pull with the right constitute
> one complete 'stroke' ?
>
> I swim a 50 metre pool. For freestyle, I breathe with every
> left stroke. On a good day, I take 21 strokes with my left
> arm and 21 strokes with my right arm - therefore taking 21
> breaths - to cross the pool.
> I'm really worried that this would actually count as
> 42 spl by the definition used by everybody in which case
> I'm doing something very wrong.
>
> Thank you to anybody who can clarify this for me.
>
> Heather
>

42 is the correct count, and the other folks who are getting counts of 13
an lower are in a 25-yard pool. playing with the 50 meter/25 yard
conversion a little, it would appear you'd be around 19 strokes in a 25
yard pool. That's a little high, but nothing to get too concerned over.
By adding some drills like catch-up, 3/4 catch-up, 2 count pause, and
fist drills, you'll learn to get the most out of each stroke. If you can
swim with a master's group, you'll get plenty of help with this.

Tom

04-30-2005, 11:35 PM

Thank you very much to both Tom's for clarifying this for me.
Now I can stop asking myself "am I counting this properly?"
when I swim.

I'm much relieved that the lower spls I'd been reading
about refer to a 25-yd pool. It would have been depressing
if they had been referring to a 50-m pool since it would
have meant I am doing something obscenely wrong.

Thank you again for the advice too.

Heather

Tom Henderson wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1114867261.899300.267300
> @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Sorry for asking a rudimentary question but I see triathlon
> > swimming articles everywhere talking about reducing the
> > strokes per length, but they don't actually define 'spl'
> > very well.
> >
> > I read an article where it was said that 21 strokes per length
> > is too much and the author has 13 ! Surely he is not talking
> > about a 50 metre swimming pool ? (I would have assumed
> > that if you were going to choose a standard pool length it
> > would be the Olympic distance pool)
> >
> > And do you define a 'stroke' as each left arm pull and each
> > right arm pull ? Or does the combination of one pull with
> > the left arm followed by one pull with the right constitute
> > one complete 'stroke' ?
> >
> > I swim a 50 metre pool. For freestyle, I breathe with every
> > left stroke. On a good day, I take 21 strokes with my left
> > arm and 21 strokes with my right arm - therefore taking 21
> > breaths - to cross the pool.
> > I'm really worried that this would actually count as
> > 42 spl by the definition used by everybody in which case
> > I'm doing something very wrong.
> >
> > Thank you to anybody who can clarify this for me.
> >
> > Heather
> >
>
> 42 is the correct count, and the other folks who are getting counts
of 13
> an lower are in a 25-yard pool. playing with the 50 meter/25 yard
> conversion a little, it would appear you'd be around 19 strokes in a
25
> yard pool. That's a little high, but nothing to get too concerned
over.
> By adding some drills like catch-up, 3/4 catch-up, 2 count pause, and

> fist drills, you'll learn to get the most out of each stroke. If you
can
> swim with a master's group, you'll get plenty of help with this.
>
> Tom

05-01-2005, 05:13 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1114929323.231336.98230
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I'm much relieved that the lower spls I'd been reading
> about refer to a 25-yd pool. It would have been depressing
> if they had been referring to a 50-m pool since it would
> have meant I am doing something obscenely wrong.
>
>

You are also quite lucky to have access to a 50-meter pool! The club I swim
at has one outdoors that we can use during the summer. It's great for those
longer swims that we triathletes should be making part of our regular
workouts.

05-02-2005, 03:18 PM

> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1114929323.231336.98230
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I'm much relieved that the lower spls I'd been reading
>> about refer to a 25-yd pool. It would have been depressing
>> if they had been referring to a 50-m pool since it would
>> have meant I am doing something obscenely wrong.

Well this thread promted me to count my strokes per length today. 26
per 25 yards. Confirming by yet another means what I already knew... my
swimming form blows. Bummer.

Roger

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05-03-2005, 10:19 AM

Tom Henderson wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1114867261.899300.267300

> 42 is the correct count, and the other folks who are getting counts
of 13
> an lower are in a 25-yard pool. playing with the 50 meter/25 yard
> conversion a little, it would appear you'd be around 19 strokes in a
25
> yard pool. That's a little high, but nothing to get too concerned
over.
> By adding some drills like catch-up, 3/4 catch-up, 2 count pause, and

> fist drills, you'll learn to get the most out of each stroke. If you
can
> swim with a master's group, you'll get plenty of help with this.

Yes the drills mentioned are good but there is nothing wrong with 42 in
a 50m - that is actually quite good! I average 19 spl in 25 yard
(more when sprinting) and about 44-46 in 50m and seem to make out all
right swimming-wise. I've played around with dropping my stroke count
but go faster at 19spl. I was counting the # of strokes the top female
distance swimmers were taking at a National level meet and they were
40-48 spl in a 50m pool. You can lose speed if you drop your count TOO
much. Good to be aware of the count but lower is not necessarily
better.

-hug
>
> Tom

05-03-2005, 04:13 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1115140761.575746.4340
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> Yes the drills mentioned are good but there is nothing wrong with 42 in
> a 50m - that is actually quite good! I average 19 spl in 25 yard
> (more when sprinting) and about 44-46 in 50m and seem to make out all
> right swimming-wise. I've played around with dropping my stroke count
> but go faster at 19spl. I was counting the # of strokes the top female
> distance swimmers were taking at a National level meet and they were
> 40-48 spl in a 50m pool. You can lose speed if you drop your count TOO
> much. Good to be aware of the count but lower is not necessarily
> better.
>
> -hug
>

Agreed. I can hit lower, but that's usually in drills where the whole
goal in to lower stroke count. I can get to 12 or so. Of course, It's a
great day if I can beat Laurie Hug out of the water, and just forget
hanging with her on the bike or run. :-)

05-04-2005, 06:38 AM

In article <1115140761.575746.4340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.c om>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> I was counting the # of strokes the top female
> distance swimmers were taking at a National level meet and they were
> 40-48 spl in a 50m pool.

Of course, what's right for top-level swimmers in a swim meet is not
necessarily what's right for triathletes, who have to keep going when
they're done swimming.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

05-04-2005, 09:09 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
<<SNIP>>
> right swimming-wise. I've played around with dropping my stroke
count
> but go faster at 19spl. I was counting the # of strokes the top
female
> distance swimmers were taking at a National level meet and they were
> 40-48 spl in a 50m pool. You can lose speed if you drop your count
TOO
> much. Good to be aware of the count but lower is not necessarily
> better.
>
> -hug
> >

I have experienced the same. I used to be a (swim) sprinter, many
moons ago.

Lengthening your stroke (flexibility & mechanics) can cut the number of
strokes, but measure your results, as Hug suggests.

If you are getting all contorted, while maintaining the tempo, you may
be creating a trade-off by disrupting the "wash". Perhaps a coach can
help to observe and video tape for you(?).

When I get overly keen on stroke count, I can feel the deceleration
preceding the "catches"; there can be diminishing returns. It may look
more graceful, but it in my case, it's also slower.

In the end, I agree with Hug; your count sounds fine with me.

rsquared

05-09-2005, 05:05 PM

one thing ya gotta do is learn to breath on both sides every third
stroke. this will help keep you straight on longer open water swims,
AND force you glide more as well as even out your kick and balance in
the water.

counting a 50m pool is going to be a little different than a 25m
because of the amount of glide you can get off each turn.. so a 25m
sounds better since you can get the first 3m without a stroke if you
have a good turn and kick off the wall.

05-10-2005, 07:43 PM

I don't do "flip-turns" off the walls, are most people assuming this is
done when measuring strokes-per-length?

"botfood" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1115683540.487960.177490@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> one thing ya gotta do is learn to breath on both sides every third
> stroke. this will help keep you straight on longer open water swims,
> AND force you glide more as well as even out your kick and balance in
> the water.
>
> counting a 50m pool is going to be a little different than a 25m
> because of the amount of glide you can get off each turn.. so a 25m
> sounds better since you can get the first 3m without a stroke if you
> have a good turn and kick off the wall.
>

05-11-2005, 06:26 AM

Chris wrote:
> I don't do "flip-turns" off the walls, are most people assuming this
is
> done when measuring strokes-per-length?
>
<<SNIP>>
> >

Doesn't matter. Either way, if you are caught between strokes, you
tend to stretch the last pull into the wall. Depnding on your
technique, you push, off the wall, may also get you just as far.

Off Topic:

The benefit (or lack) of flipturns is another discussion. To condense
the general conclusions, as I recall previous debates...

For obvious reasons, flip turning is a technique that will not be
utilized in an open water triathlon. This is analagous to cycling in a
paceline; you do it in order to blend with the norms of another
support, while getting a good workout.

So you will probably need to flip, if you want to keep up with the
rhythm of a crowded group of proficient (masters) pool swimmers. There
may actually be more pool ettiquette to learn than paceline ettiquette.

The better you flip, the more benefit you will get out of the comapany
you keep. It's not about stroke count.

rsquared

05-11-2005, 12:28 PM

rsquared wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > I don't do "flip-turns" off the walls, are most people assuming
this
> is
> > done when measuring strokes-per-length?
------------
whether you flip or turtle-turn, you probably push off the wall and
glide a ways... so in the shorter pool you *probably* take fewer
strokes per mile.

> For obvious reasons, flip turning is a technique that will not be
> utilized in an open water triathlon. This is analagous to cycling in
a
> paceline; you do it in order to blend with the norms of another
> support, while getting a good workout.
-------
and, there are a growing number of short-course tris that use serpetine
laps thru a pool for the water leg. It can be a mess when crowded, and
the RDs usually make the swim last in these cases.

>
> So you will probably need to flip, if you want to keep up with the
> rhythm of a crowded group of proficient (masters) pool swimmers.
---------
I actually had a very fast turtle-turn, BUT found that in some pools I
had a hard time grabbing the edge, and I was beating up my wedding
ring, and couldnt do it with paddles on... took a whole summer and
swallowing a lot of pool water to figure out flip turns! ...but well
worth it in the long run.

d