Race wheels - worth the money? - Triathlon Week

04-10-2005, 09:29 PM

I am considering a set of race wheels. Does anyone have any specific
performance gains they would attribute directly to the wheels/tires? I
would be hard pressed to think that a bit less drag from the wheels and a
bit less weight could net more than a .1 or .2 MPH. When I blow by guys
on ZIPPs or a rear disc (on my $150 stock wheels/tires) I always chuckle at
how much money they just wasted. I would love a cool new set of aero wheels
but are they worth the cost? Any advice from those that have stepped up to
a good wheel set.

BTW - On the drafting thread - No Way. I am a back of the pack swimmer but
can usually make up most of the lost ground on the bike. If the pack worked
a pace line, slower swimmers would never see them again, no matter how good
they are on the bike or run.

Thanks,
AJ

04-10-2005, 11:57 PM

Race wheels are a necessary investment if you are racing to compete for a
podium position in a race of significance, I.E. IM qualifier etc. If
out for the fun then it is just a matter of what you want to spend and how
cool you want to look. Conditions can be a factor. Very windy courses are
more easily navigated at speed with a heavier wheel with less surface to be
affected by cross or gusty winds. Heavier wheels will cost you on a hilly
course but might be an enhancement on a slightly rolling course as they
maintain momentum and add gyro stability.

If you are a serious racer, go for the fastest wheel you can get.

Ken

"A. J." <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>I am considering a set of race wheels. Does anyone have any specific
> performance gains they would attribute directly to the wheels/tires? I
> would be hard pressed to think that a bit less drag from the wheels and a
> bit less weight could net more than a .1 or .2 MPH. When I blow by guys
> on ZIPPs or a rear disc (on my $150 stock wheels/tires) I always chuckle
> at
> how much money they just wasted. I would love a cool new set of aero
> wheels
> but are they worth the cost? Any advice from those that have stepped up
> to
> a good wheel set.
>
> BTW - On the drafting thread - No Way. I am a back of the pack swimmer
> but
> can usually make up most of the lost ground on the bike. If the pack
> worked
> a pace line, slower swimmers would never see them again, no matter how
> good
> they are on the bike or run.
>
> Thanks,
> AJ
>
>

04-14-2005, 06:01 AM

No offense, but I would spend the money on some swimming instruction. If
you are a "back of the pack swimmer" you will never place in a big time
event because there are a lot of competitors who are very strong in all
three events. Then you would not have to "blow by" the guys on expensive
wheelsets, you would already be ahead of them. You can lose a LOT of
time in the swim, especially in the shorter events. Think of how hard it
is to make up a minute or two minutes on a 10k run.

Chris

04-14-2005, 07:54 AM

I agree, unless you're rolling in cash the money might be better spent
on a swim camp.
I bought Spinergy race wheels when I made good money. Now I'm old,
permanently injured, pretty slow and don't see that they were worth the
investment as far as my performance times. However I do like them, they
have a high "cool" rating and make me feel like I'm fast.

Eric

Chris Dorn wrote:
> No offense, but I would spend the money on some swimming instruction. If
> you are a "back of the pack swimmer" you will never place in a big time
> event because there are a lot of competitors who are very strong in all
> three events. Then you would not have to "blow by" the guys on expensive
> wheelsets, you would already be ahead of them. You can lose a LOT of
> time in the swim, especially in the shorter events. Think of how hard it
> is to make up a minute or two minutes on a 10k run.
>
> Chris

04-15-2005, 08:02 PM

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:29:52 -0700, A. J. wrote:

> I am considering a set of race wheels. Does anyone have any specific
> performance gains they would attribute directly to the wheels/tires? I
> would be hard pressed to think that a bit less drag from the wheels and a
> bit less weight could net more than a .1 or .2 MPH. When I blow by guys
> on ZIPPs or a rear disc (on my $150 stock wheels/tires) I always chuckle at
> how much money they just wasted. I would love a cool new set of aero wheels
> but are they worth the cost? Any advice from those that have stepped up to
> a good wheel set.

Take a look at the HED or ZIPP websites. Here's a rough estimate.
For a 40K time trial which a good cyclist can finish in an hour
or less, going from standard 32 spoke box rims to a very expensive
aero wheelset will save about a minute. So that's about a 2%
improvement.

So if you are competing at a top level and want to win a minute is a big
deal and you are to spend the $$$. If you are doing
the sport for fun only then save your money and ride the wheels
you already have. You will have less expensive equipment to worry
about too.

04-15-2005, 11:00 PM

None taken, I practice controlled drowning with forward motion. Not quite
an Olympic stroke, but allowable for freestyle. I recognize that until I
can get a 1.5K swim under 25 minutes, the 1-2 minutes saving in the wheels
aren't going to make a difference. But with my recognized swim weakness I
have been leaning more towards duathlons. Here wheels become worth
considering again as shaving 1-2 minutes off a 10K is a no small
achievement, as you stated.
Any tips on swimming? I looked into the TI weekend seminars but I am in
a little town far away from any cities on the circuit. $475 also seems a
bit pricey. I have tried the TI book with limited improvement.

AJ

"Chris Dorn" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> No offense, but I would spend the money on some swimming instruction. If
> you are a "back of the pack swimmer" you will never place in a big time
> event because there are a lot of competitors who are very strong in all
> three events. Then you would not have to "blow by" the guys on expensive
> wheelsets, you would already be ahead of them. You can lose a LOT of
> time in the swim, especially in the shorter events. Think of how hard it
> is to make up a minute or two minutes on a 10k run.
>
> Chris

04-16-2005, 10:30 AM

swamprun <swamprun@localhost.localdomain> wrote:

>Take a look at the HED or ZIPP websites. Here's a rough estimate.
>For a 40K time trial which a good cyclist can finish in an hour
>or less, going from standard 32 spoke box rims to a very expensive
>aero wheelset will save about a minute. So that's about a 2%
>improvement.
>
>So if you are competing at a top level and want to win a minute is a big
>deal and you are to spend the $$$. If you are doing
>the sport for fun only then save your money and ride the wheels
>you already have. You will have less expensive equipment to worry
>about too.

I'd point out that there are many intermediate steps between a
box-section 32 spoke wheel and the HED wheels - you really don't have
to spend a fortune to get most of the aero advantage. I'd suspect the
realistic time difference between a set of $300 and $2000 aero wheels
would be measured in the sub-15 second region (SWAG).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Home of the $695 ti frame

04-17-2005, 05:03 PM

A. J. wrote:
> <snip>

.. I have tried the TI book with limited improvement.
>
> AJ
>
><snip>

Get the DVD. I got the DVD and the book, the DVD changed my stroke for
the better, seeing it done is way better then reading about it and
looking at pictures. (TI made me marginally faster, but best of all I
can swim longer and get out of the water less exhausted). I guess I
really could have gone without the book.

jh

04-18-2005, 11:23 AM

I agree with Mark. In fact, you could get just a front wheel with a
high profile rim (27-30) for about $100 from a bunch of mail order
places. You would probably need to tighten the spoke tension. I think
that the fron wheel has the most impact in aerodynamics.

Andres

04-18-2005, 11:25 AM

AJ
Check into your local masters swim league, go to the YMCA, health club
or local college, here is a link to the national organization.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
The folk at master swimming can help you with your stroke and with
training regimen. You will find lots of tri-geeks at these clubs.
Good luck
Chris

04-19-2005, 03:23 AM

Hi Guy's,

For a much cheaper option ........there's an interesting article on
slowtwitch.com, which shows the cost in time that the effect of where you
place your water bottle on your bike can save you ( or cost you more ) time
over a race .... simple idea, and it can save you anywhere from 30 seconds
to 90 seconds for a 40km ride

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Regards,
Martin.

"A. J." <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>I am considering a set of race wheels. Does anyone have any specific
> performance gains they would attribute directly to the wheels/tires? I
> would be hard pressed to think that a bit less drag from the wheels and a
> bit less weight could net more than a .1 or .2 MPH. When I blow by guys
> on ZIPPs or a rear disc (on my $150 stock wheels/tires) I always chuckle
> at
> how much money they just wasted. I would love a cool new set of aero
> wheels
> but are they worth the cost? Any advice from those that have stepped up
> to
> a good wheel set.
>
> BTW - On the drafting thread - No Way. I am a back of the pack swimmer
> but
> can usually make up most of the lost ground on the bike. If the pack
> worked
> a pace line, slower swimmers would never see them again, no matter how
> good
> they are on the bike or run.
>
> Thanks,
> AJ
>
>

KEAU · 04-19-2005, 02:02 PM

I got offered a deal I couldnt refuse on my zipps. Look around, there are plenty of people selling wheels given to them by HED, ZIPP, X LAB etc every year that they are willing to dump on the off season for a couple of bills.

Ill keep my eye out, if anyones in the market. Keau

04-20-2005, 07:15 AM

Just get the frikkin race wheels and go faster. If the new high tech
composite wheels didn't outperform the Velocity Deep V's and Mavics that
come with your new tri bike, we'd all be racing on wooden spoked wheels off
of an old horse drawn carriage. I gained 2-3 MPH on my first race after
upgrading to Nimble Crosswinds. They took me from the 21.5 ish range to the
23-24.5 ish range almost instantly. It's a lot more fun riding up with the
guys you saw getting trophies at the last race, rather than counting how far
you are behind them when you're coming up to the turnaround point.

At the same time, develop the skills to become a better swimmer, a better
runner, and a better cyclist.

The wheels will definitely help!

Aaron

<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1113845005.665060.246500@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> I agree with Mark. In fact, you could get just a front wheel with a
> high profile rim (27-30) for about $100 from a bunch of mail order
> places. You would probably need to tighten the spoke tension. I think
> that the fron wheel has the most impact in aerodynamics.
>
> Andres
>

04-20-2005, 09:12 AM

snip
I gained 2-3 MPH on my first race after
> upgrading to Nimble Crosswinds. They took me from the 21.5 ish range
to the
> 23-24.5 ish range almost instantly.

Wow thats one heck of an increase in speed just from wheels! Were you on
the same course? Did you have a huge tailwind in the second race? Were
the wheels you were originally riding made of blocks of wood? Seriously
thats an almost unbelievable increase just from adding wheels. A 3 mph
increase over an olympic distance race ie. 26 miles is 9 minutes faster.
I seriously doubt that most people would gain that sort of speed just
from wheels. I picked up about 1 mph-1.5 mph with race wheels. (Zipp 909's)

04-20-2005, 09:31 AM

Further to add to my previous post: a 165# rider going 21.25mph requires
369 watts of power output. (Check out analyticalcycling.com)

The same rider going 24.6mph requires 479 watts.

There is no way that race wheels will make you that much more aerodynamic.

In 2001 Lance averaged an estimated mean power output of between 475 and
500 watts for 38 minutes and that is considered to be a legendary
performance.

I am not saying people don't go that fast in triathlon, because I know
they do. I just can't see that great of an improvement by just adding
race wheels.

Chris