Dale Basescu vs. Paul C. Burton ten/twenty years later... - Triathlon Week

03-27-2005, 04:39 PM

Wow! I came across a ten year old thread (1996) about the perennial
drafting controversy in the sport of Triathlon. It was even more
interesting after reading that the thread began from a reprinted
article written by former pro Triathlete, (ranked fifth in the world in
1985) Dale Basescu, ten years before that (1986).

Even though it really doesn't make much of a difference at this point,
I can't help but feel the urge to point out some of the blaring
inaccuracies, and asinine statements articulated by the overzealous,
and quite moronic Paul C. Burton, former (perhaps current, I don't
know) Vice President, USAT Board of Directors 1996.

First, and most importantly I point to the Olympics. One of the
pinnacle achievements, according to many in the sport today, is the
inclusion of Triathlon in the Olympics. Correct me if I am mistaken,
all you "drafting spells the end of Triathlon" advocates, (Paul C.
Burton in particular), but The Olympic Triathlon was a "drafting legal"
race. As are numerous Pro races these days. Hmmm? I wonder why this is
the case? Oh yea, according to Paul's article it is because those who
were in favor of drafting were second tier pros who were in favor of
"doing away with all rules". Paul went on to make the nonsequeter
statement, "Hell, burn the Constitution of the United States. After
all, some people violate it."
Well Paul, if you are going to make ludicrous comparisons, I must point
out that there are these things called amendments, which arise out of
changing times, and clearer thinking (the later being something that
hopefully you have developed over the last nine years)

More of Paul's stupidity is exhibited when he says, "I was there. I
remember exactly when Dale (Basescu) started this nonsense (about
drafting). It was on Chicago TV in 1985 (6?) while he was sitting in a
TV commentator's booth. He was sitting in the booth because he
couldn't win."
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid a person can be. Paul, whether
or not Dale could have won the Chicago Triathlon that day really had
nothing whatsoever to do with his choice to be "sitting in the booth".
It was a simple question of health, and economics. Regarding health: At
that point in Dale's life, lung damage due to a toxic chemical exposure
had destroyed a large percentage of Dale's left lung, thus ending his
short triathlon career. Regarding economics: He earned more money
"sitting in the booth" that day, than 99% of the pro field.
Also, Paul, your amazing attention to detail is truly underwhelming.
The broadcast of the Chicago Triathlon was long after the original
drafting article was published. So the "nonesense" as you refer to it,
started long before the 1986 Chicago race.

More evidence of Paul C. Burrton's inability to understand the
complexity of the drafting situation as it existed back then (and
undoubtedly now in certain races) is his shortsighted inflammatory
statement that, "Dale's whining about drafting was from the position of
having had his hind end kicked by his competition."
HEY PAUL, WAKE UP YOU MORON, of course that was the reason. Dale's hind
end was kicked several times by competitors who gained an enormous
advantage by not being penalized for blatant drafting violations. If
you had ever been a good Triathlete yourself, you might have noticed
that the problem was one of "equal protection" under the rules. That
was the issue, nothing else. If equal protection under the rules would
have been achieved, then there would not have been any controversy, and
time trial cycling would have been a mainstay in the sport. But guess
what, it was not possible, so look what happened: draft legal races
evolved out of necessity. Even to the point of Triathlons shining
example to the world of sport, the Olympic Triathlon, being a race
where drafting is legal, and inexorable to a "fair and accurate"
outcome.

Back in the "old days", and obviously to the present day the no
drafting rule cannot be enforced accurately, and fairly enough for the
professionals. If it could be, draft legal races never would have
evolved as they have to date, and the most prominent Triathlon in the
world would never have been made a draft legal race.

This will be the last time I ever write a word about this perennially
controversial topic. History has completely vindicated, and proven what
I was trying to say over twenty years ago. If you can't see that, you
are blind. And for all of you Morons who want to disparage my short
career as a Professional Triathlete because you didn't have the facts,
the wits, or the athletic skills, to understand the crux of the
drafting issue, who cares what you think anyway. The world is full of
idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
shoes?

I'm sure this final rant of mine may raise the ire of any drafting
marshals and triathlon officials who happen to read it. All I can say
is, so be it. We all have our perspectives. I would just ask that if
you decide to hammer my point of view, fine, have at it, but don't try
to say "why" Dale Basescu had a particular stand on this issue. For the
last time, my stand on the drafting issue was born out of the unfair
randomized enforcement of the day. It seems that such inconsistencies
must have persisted through the years; otherwise there would not be
high profile draft legal races to date.

I loved racing in Triathlons. I loved the people, the lifestyle, the
competition, everything about it. It was one of the greatest times of
my life, and I miss many of the wonderful friendships cultivated during
that short time.
Paul C. Burton, (if you ever read this), I at least appreciate your
enthusiasm, and I am sure, you, as I am, are well past the fervor of
the drafting issue, and undoubtedly we would have a few laughs together
if we ever met.
So please don't misinterpret my own overzealousness as anything but
that. Just a last gasp about a topic which has relatively little
consequence in the grand scheme of things...

Dr. Dale Basescu
Pro Triathlete 1983-1985

03-27-2005, 06:23 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1111970373.021736.147580
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> One of the
> pinnacle achievements, according to many in the sport today, is the
> inclusion of Triathlon in the Olympics.

Wasn't aware triathloan had made it to the Olympics. They do have this
thing where they put a road race between a swim and a run, but no
triathlon.

On a more serious note, have you noticed that you just wasted a minimum of
an hour typing this rant that proves nothing but the fact that you have
held some sort of grudge for 20 years?

Man, I hope I'm not that bitter at your age...

03-27-2005, 06:58 PM

>>The world is full of
>>idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
>>shoes?

Hi,

We're actually called the Tri-Idiots. Check our website at Tri-Idiot.com.
;-)

>> Even though it really doesn't make much of a difference at this point

Gee...you can say that again! Dude...it's the year 2005: LET IT GO!!!

<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1111970373.021736.147580@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Wow! I came across a ten year old thread (1996) about the perennial
> drafting controversy in the sport of Triathlon. It was even more
> interesting after reading that the thread began from a reprinted
> article written by former pro Triathlete, (ranked fifth in the world in
> 1985) Dale Basescu, ten years before that (1986).
>
> Even though it really doesn't make much of a difference at this point,
> I can't help but feel the urge to point out some of the blaring
> inaccuracies, and asinine statements articulated by the overzealous,
> and quite moronic Paul C. Burton, former (perhaps current, I don't
> know) Vice President, USAT Board of Directors 1996.
>
> First, and most importantly I point to the Olympics. One of the
> pinnacle achievements, according to many in the sport today, is the
> inclusion of Triathlon in the Olympics. Correct me if I am mistaken,
> all you "drafting spells the end of Triathlon" advocates, (Paul C.
> Burton in particular), but The Olympic Triathlon was a "drafting legal"
> race. As are numerous Pro races these days. Hmmm? I wonder why this is
> the case? Oh yea, according to Paul's article it is because those who
> were in favor of drafting were second tier pros who were in favor of
> "doing away with all rules". Paul went on to make the nonsequeter
> statement, "Hell, burn the Constitution of the United States. After
> all, some people violate it."
> Well Paul, if you are going to make ludicrous comparisons, I must point
> out that there are these things called amendments, which arise out of
> changing times, and clearer thinking (the later being something that
> hopefully you have developed over the last nine years)
>
> More of Paul's stupidity is exhibited when he says, "I was there. I
> remember exactly when Dale (Basescu) started this nonsense (about
> drafting). It was on Chicago TV in 1985 (6?) while he was sitting in a
> TV commentator's booth. He was sitting in the booth because he
> couldn't win."
> It never ceases to amaze me how stupid a person can be. Paul, whether
> or not Dale could have won the Chicago Triathlon that day really had
> nothing whatsoever to do with his choice to be "sitting in the booth".
> It was a simple question of health, and economics. Regarding health: At
> that point in Dale's life, lung damage due to a toxic chemical exposure
> had destroyed a large percentage of Dale's left lung, thus ending his
> short triathlon career. Regarding economics: He earned more money
> "sitting in the booth" that day, than 99% of the pro field.
> Also, Paul, your amazing attention to detail is truly underwhelming.
> The broadcast of the Chicago Triathlon was long after the original
> drafting article was published. So the "nonesense" as you refer to it,
> started long before the 1986 Chicago race.
>
> More evidence of Paul C. Burrton's inability to understand the
> complexity of the drafting situation as it existed back then (and
> undoubtedly now in certain races) is his shortsighted inflammatory
> statement that, "Dale's whining about drafting was from the position of
> having had his hind end kicked by his competition."
> HEY PAUL, WAKE UP YOU MORON, of course that was the reason. Dale's hind
> end was kicked several times by competitors who gained an enormous
> advantage by not being penalized for blatant drafting violations. If
> you had ever been a good Triathlete yourself, you might have noticed
> that the problem was one of "equal protection" under the rules. That
> was the issue, nothing else. If equal protection under the rules would
> have been achieved, then there would not have been any controversy, and
> time trial cycling would have been a mainstay in the sport. But guess
> what, it was not possible, so look what happened: draft legal races
> evolved out of necessity. Even to the point of Triathlons shining
> example to the world of sport, the Olympic Triathlon, being a race
> where drafting is legal, and inexorable to a "fair and accurate"
> outcome.
>
> Back in the "old days", and obviously to the present day the no
> drafting rule cannot be enforced accurately, and fairly enough for the
> professionals. If it could be, draft legal races never would have
> evolved as they have to date, and the most prominent Triathlon in the
> world would never have been made a draft legal race.
>
> This will be the last time I ever write a word about this perennially
> controversial topic. History has completely vindicated, and proven what
> I was trying to say over twenty years ago. If you can't see that, you
> are blind. And for all of you Morons who want to disparage my short
> career as a Professional Triathlete because you didn't have the facts,
> the wits, or the athletic skills, to understand the crux of the
> drafting issue, who cares what you think anyway. The world is full of
> idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
> shoes?
>
> I'm sure this final rant of mine may raise the ire of any drafting
> marshals and triathlon officials who happen to read it. All I can say
> is, so be it. We all have our perspectives. I would just ask that if
> you decide to hammer my point of view, fine, have at it, but don't try
> to say "why" Dale Basescu had a particular stand on this issue. For the
> last time, my stand on the drafting issue was born out of the unfair
> randomized enforcement of the day. It seems that such inconsistencies
> must have persisted through the years; otherwise there would not be
> high profile draft legal races to date.
>
> I loved racing in Triathlons. I loved the people, the lifestyle, the
> competition, everything about it. It was one of the greatest times of
> my life, and I miss many of the wonderful friendships cultivated during
> that short time.
> Paul C. Burton, (if you ever read this), I at least appreciate your
> enthusiasm, and I am sure, you, as I am, are well past the fervor of
> the drafting issue, and undoubtedly we would have a few laughs together
> if we ever met.
> So please don't misinterpret my own overzealousness as anything but
> that. Just a last gasp about a topic which has relatively little
> consequence in the grand scheme of things...
>
> Dr. Dale Basescu
> Pro Triathlete 1983-1985
>

03-28-2005, 04:37 AM

>>"On a more serious note, have you noticed that you just wasted a
minimum of
an hour typing this rant"

Actually Tom, it's really not too "serious", and it took me about 15
minutes. That's 15 minutes out of the last 20 years. When you get to be
my age, although you're bitter, you get things done quickly...

03-28-2005, 04:57 AM

>>Dude...it's the year 2005: LET IT GO!!!

Ahhh, you're right... I feel better now... Thanks.

03-28-2005, 08:36 AM

1983 was my first year in the sport. When I stood on the shore then,
*most* of the people who were paying the bills only aspired to get
through the event the best way they could. I think the same is true
today.

If anything, I think amateurs relate *less* to the pros now than they
did then. As the professional version changes, amateurs find
themselves funding professional programs & aspirations in a sport that
bears little resemblance to ours.

Speaking for myself, I don't give flip about the professional/Olympic
calibre triathletes. I do not look to them for inspiration or
motivation. I doubt that they draw nearly as many people ($$$) to the
sport as the "everyman" next door does. I feel as though we have been
hijacked by the professionals; it will be our undoing.

rsquared

03-28-2005, 09:09 AM

Dale, so what is it you are looking for?

Gratification? That we should kneel before the great king of drafting?

The fact that the ITU had a motion tabled for the 2004 congress to make
all age group world championships draft legal is what ? Your fault??

Just becuase a very very small group of pro's have made an even smaller
amount of money by racing in an ITU circus where crashing is in and
bike racing is out doesn't mean you were right or Paul whatever his
name was was wrong.

Meanwhile Ironman races attract an increasingly bigger TV audience,
more competitors, sell out up to a year in advance, and pretty much
generate bigger heros(pro and non-pro) and Ironman racing is....
non-drafting.

Interestingly while I've been engaged in the debate about draft legal
racing at both national and international level, I had never heard of
either of you just goes to show how the whole debate has been had a
million times, there are no facts in predicting the future, just
opinions. Paul may have had the wrong opinion, but I suspect he isn't
carrying a grudge 20-yrs later.

Perhaps you feel someone owes you money for inventing draftign
triathlon?

++Mark.

03-28-2005, 01:08 PM

trimark wrote:
> Dale, so what is it you are looking for?

Mark,
Nothing.
I inadvertently came across an article that had made some very
disparaging, and inaccurate remarks about me. Time stands still in
cyberspace, so I felt compelled to address the false accusations. Plain
and simple. No grudge at all.

However, if in turn you feel compelled to, as you say, "kneel before
the great king of drafting", be my guest. But instead, (since you might
scrape up your knees, which might keep you from training) why don't you
just re- read my original post. I only pointed out that drafting could
not be policed (definitely not back in 1985), not that I was in favor
of it.

As for your final remark about how I might feel... Well, I've made
plenty of money so far in this lifetime, so I don't feel owed, but
c'mon dude, everyone knows that drafting is only for swimmers...and yes
I invented it.

03-28-2005, 06:53 PM

In article <1111970373.021736.147580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

>
> This will be the last time I ever write a word about this perennially
> controversial topic. History has completely vindicated, and proven what
> I was trying to say over twenty years ago. If you can't see that, you
> are blind. And for all of you Morons who want to disparage my short
> career as a Professional Triathlete because you didn't have the facts,
> the wits, or the athletic skills, to understand the crux of the
> drafting issue, who cares what you think anyway. The world is full of
> idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
> shoes?

Whoa. Somebody needs to let go. Guiness does not recognize the record
for "longest-held grudge." That is, if you are who you say you are and
not just a troll.

Eh, why can't you be both.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

03-29-2005, 12:28 AM

that'll be 'guinness' not 'guiness' - a small but important point I feel...
;o)

K.

"Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> In article <1111970373.021736.147580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> >
> > This will be the last time I ever write a word about this perennially
> > controversial topic. History has completely vindicated, and proven what
> > I was trying to say over twenty years ago. If you can't see that, you
> > are blind. And for all of you Morons who want to disparage my short
> > career as a Professional Triathlete because you didn't have the facts,
> > the wits, or the athletic skills, to understand the crux of the
> > drafting issue, who cares what you think anyway. The world is full of
> > idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
> > shoes?
>
>
> Whoa. Somebody needs to let go. Guiness does not recognize the record
> for "longest-held grudge." That is, if you are who you say you are and
> not just a troll.
>
> Eh, why can't you be both.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

03-29-2005, 04:49 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote in news:1112013465.646740.38550
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>>>"On a more serious note, have you noticed that you just wasted a
> minimum of
> an hour typing this rant"
>
> Actually Tom, it's really not too "serious", and it took me about 15
> minutes. That's 15 minutes out of the last 20 years. When you get to be
> my age, although you're bitter, you get things done quickly...
>
>

I see. The way I compose, it would've taken and hour. I run and bike
pretty slow too...

Great response, though!

03-29-2005, 06:30 AM

In article <d2b3jt$lhd$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"Keith Wilkinson" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

[top post corrected]

>
> "Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> > In article <1111970373.021736.147580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > This will be the last time I ever write a word about this perennially
> > > controversial topic. History has completely vindicated, and proven what
> > > I was trying to say over twenty years ago. If you can't see that, you
> > > are blind. And for all of you Morons who want to disparage my short
> > > career as a Professional Triathlete because you didn't have the facts,
> > > the wits, or the athletic skills, to understand the crux of the
> > > drafting issue, who cares what you think anyway. The world is full of
> > > idiots. What's a few more with goggles, a bike, and a pair of running
> > > shoes?
> >
> >
> > Whoa. Somebody needs to let go. Guiness does not recognize the record
> > for "longest-held grudge."
>
> that'll be 'guinness' not 'guiness' - a small but important point I feel...
> ;o)
>
> K.

And yet my original statement is correct, since neither "Guiness" nor
"Guinness" (nor "guiness" nor "guinness"--capitalization is a small but
important point, I feel) recognize a record for longest grudge.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

03-29-2005, 06:34 AM

Harold Buck wrote:
> In article <1111970373.021736.147580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
>
> Whoa. Somebody needs to let go. Guiness does not recognize the record

> for "longest-held grudge." That is, if you are who you say you are
and
> not just a troll.
>

Harold,
Yea, I guess I might have sounded a bit pissed off. I haven't even
thought about Triathlons, no less drafting, since I retired from the
sport 20 years ago...(too much life to live, and too short amount of
time to live it). I just inadvertently happened across an article on
the internet, dated 1996, which made a lot of false statements about me
personally. Since cyberspace freezes time, I wanted to set the record
straight. No grudge, I swear.
Just wanted to recapture the tension of the issue.
All I want is peace and harmony...lots of ice cream...and a cold beer
every once in a while.

03-29-2005, 03:10 PM

On 28 Mar 2005 13:08:41 -0800, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

>Time stands still in
>cyberspace,

As opposed to books and magazines?

JT

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03-29-2005, 03:26 PM

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 28 Mar 2005 13:08:41 -0800, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> As opposed to books and magazines?

John,
Yea, of course. 0's and 1's are forever. Paper turns to dust, and
ashes...