Question re: Swim Distance Unit of Measure - Triathlon Week

01-28-2005, 02:30 PM

I'm working on a triathlete-specific training diary program (it will be a
spin-off of my CycliStats bicycling log - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ).

The cycling program currently has a program option setting for "Units of
Distance" (metric or US). If I follow the conventions from my previous
programs, if you choose US distance units of measure you would log bike and
run distances in miles, and thus swim distances would be tracked by yards.
But, I'm not sure if this will be correct.

It's important in software development to get these kinds of questions
answered upfront, because getting it wrong in the design phase can be a
nightmare to correct later on. So, some questions for the group:

1) If you track bike/run distance in miles, would you also want to track all
swim distances in yards?

2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to track
swim distance in meters?

3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish to
record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless of how
you record bike/run distance)?

Note: it's always possible to switch back and forth between metric and US
units by changing the program preferences. My questions relate to how you
fill in the "Distance" field when logging a swim workout.

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

--
GG
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Software for Cyclists
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Weight and Health Diary

01-28-2005, 02:48 PM

"GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> I'm working on a triathlete-specific training diary program (it will be a
> spin-off of my CycliStats bicycling log - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ).
>
> The cycling program currently has a program option setting for "Units of
> Distance" (metric or US). If I follow the conventions from my previous
> programs, if you choose US distance units of measure you would log bike
> and
> run distances in miles, and thus swim distances would be tracked by yards.
> But, I'm not sure if this will be correct.
>
> It's important in software development to get these kinds of questions
> answered upfront, because getting it wrong in the design phase can be a
> nightmare to correct later on. So, some questions for the group:
>
> 1) If you track bike/run distance in miles, would you also want to track
> all
> swim distances in yards?
>
> 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to track
> swim distance in meters?
>
> 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish to
> record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless of
> how
> you record bike/run distance)?
>
> Note: it's always possible to switch back and forth between metric and US
> units by changing the program preferences. My questions relate to how you
> fill in the "Distance" field when logging a swim workout.
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>
> --
> GG
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Software for Cyclists
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Weight and Health Diary
>
>

I have created a similar program in Visual Basic for personal use. I have
shared it with some friends.

What I find is that *most* swimmers, including myself, prefer yards. Pace
tends to be evaluated in minutes/100 yards.

This seems to be particularly true for open water.

For pool swims, leave yourself a format that lends itself to repetitions of
the same distance.

Hope this helps,

rsquared

01-28-2005, 03:33 PM

rsquared wrote:
>
> What I find is that *most* swimmers, including myself, prefer yards. Pace
> tends to be evaluated in minutes/100 yards.
>

I'd say this depends on who you want to use the software. From a global
perspective I think you'd find most swimmers use metric.

DaveB

01-28-2005, 03:45 PM

"GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> a écrit dans le message de news:
g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

>
> 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to track
> swim distance in meters?
>
> 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish to
> record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless of
how
> you record bike/run distance)?

Don't know the situation in yhe USA, but in continental Europe, one will
always track bike/run in km, and swim in meters (or km). You will never find
a 25 yards pool here... So no need to switch back and forth between km and
yards.

It reminds me my Speedo Stroke Monitor. It's a pain in the ass to have to
set up meter mode again everytime I want to change the repeat distance...

-- Olivier

01-28-2005, 03:49 PM

"DaveB" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au> wrote in message
news:41facba7$0$15838$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].a u...
> rsquared wrote:
> >
> > What I find is that *most* swimmers, including myself, prefer yards.
Pace
> > tends to be evaluated in minutes/100 yards.
> >
>
> I'd say this depends on who you want to use the software. From a global
> perspective I think you'd find most swimmers use metric.
>
> DaveB

Looks like on this one I'll bite the bullet, and allow swim distance to be
logged either way. If they've selected US units of distance in program
preferences, it will default to Yards when logging the swim workout, but
will allow entry in Meters if so desired. And, vice versa if they've chosen
Metric units of distance.

Thanks for the feedback.

--
GG
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Software for Cyclists
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Weight and Health Diary

01-28-2005, 04:16 PM

"Silver0l" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:41facdca$0$2011$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].fr...
> "GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>
> >
> > 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to track
> > swim distance in meters?
> >
> > 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish to
> > record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless of
> how
> > you record bike/run distance)?
>
> Don't know the situation in yhe USA, but in continental Europe, one will
> always track bike/run in km, and swim in meters (or km). You will never
find
> a 25 yards pool here... So no need to switch back and forth between km and
> yards.
>
> It reminds me my Speedo Stroke Monitor. It's a pain in the ass to have to
> set up meter mode again everytime I want to change the repeat distance...
>
> -- Olivier
>

Thanks...I try to make my software as "international" as I can. The program
already permits selection of Units of Distance (US or metric), Units of
Weight (US, metric, or British), and Units of Energy (calories or joules).
I just want to make sure that I get the design correct for swim distance, so
that it's not a "pain in the ass" to use.

GG

01-29-2005, 08:00 AM

Can you allow the user to set units for each activity? I train in a 50
meter pool but run/bike by the mile. However I do log some races as
training 5K/10K runs or 40K TT on the bike.

"GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:KCAKd.18230$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> "Silver0l" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:41facdca$0$2011$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].fr...
> > "GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> > g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> >
> > >
> > > 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to
track
> > > swim distance in meters?
> > >
> > > 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish
to
> > > record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless
of
> > how
> > > you record bike/run distance)?
> >
> > Don't know the situation in yhe USA, but in continental Europe, one will
> > always track bike/run in km, and swim in meters (or km). You will never
> find
> > a 25 yards pool here... So no need to switch back and forth between km
and
> > yards.
> >
> > It reminds me my Speedo Stroke Monitor. It's a pain in the ass to have
to
> > set up meter mode again everytime I want to change the repeat
distance...
> >
> > -- Olivier
> >
>
> Thanks...I try to make my software as "international" as I can. The
program
> already permits selection of Units of Distance (US or metric), Units of
> Weight (US, metric, or British), and Units of Energy (calories or joules).
> I just want to make sure that I get the design correct for swim distance,
so
> that it's not a "pain in the ass" to use.
>
> GG
>
>

01-29-2005, 09:06 AM

Gary,

This issue is one that has prevented me from using any commercially
available training software. I use an Excel spreadsheet, but it is not
so elegant.

Here is what I need for logging my workouts (I am in the US):

1) Swim - I swim in 50 meter pools, 25 yard pools and in open water
where distances are measure in either meters or miles. I would like to
log my distances in the units that I used.

2) Bike - I always use miles, but races are sometimes 40K, so I would
like to use both.

3) Run - I run on a 400 meter track, but my road and trail running is
measured in miles.

If you are going to present a summary view, I would be satisfied if the
units were local (miles), but the ultimate would be if I could specifiy
yards or meters for swimming.

Thanks,

Ray

01-29-2005, 10:44 AM

"A. J." <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> Can you allow the user to set units for each activity? I train in a 50
> meter pool but run/bike by the mile. However I do log some races as
> training 5K/10K runs or 40K TT on the bike.

Yes...sort of. There's a button you can click on when logging a ride or run
that brings up a "Distance/Time/Speed" calculator. Using that, you can
switch to Metric, enter the distance in km, then switch it back to Imperial.
By doing that, it will make the proper conversion (so, your 40K TT would
become 24.85 miles).

GG

>
> "GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:KCAKd.18230$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> > "Silver0l" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > news:41facdca$0$2011$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].fr...
> > > "GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> > > g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to
> track
> > > > swim distance in meters?
> > > >
> > > > 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes
wish
> to
> > > > record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless
> of
> > > how
> > > > you record bike/run distance)?
> > >
> > > Don't know the situation in yhe USA, but in continental Europe, one
will
> > > always track bike/run in km, and swim in meters (or km). You will
never
> > find
> > > a 25 yards pool here... So no need to switch back and forth between km
> and
> > > yards.
> > >
> > > It reminds me my Speedo Stroke Monitor. It's a pain in the ass to have
> to
> > > set up meter mode again everytime I want to change the repeat
> distance...
> > >
> > > -- Olivier
> > >
> >
> > Thanks...I try to make my software as "international" as I can. The
> program
> > already permits selection of Units of Distance (US or metric), Units of
> > Weight (US, metric, or British), and Units of Energy (calories or
joules).
> > I just want to make sure that I get the design correct for swim
distance,
> so
> > that it's not a "pain in the ass" to use.
> >
> > GG
> >
> >
>
>

01-29-2005, 10:47 AM

"Kernal Mustard" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1107018368.883396.290960@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Gary,
>
> This issue is one that has prevented me from using any commercially
> available training software. I use an Excel spreadsheet, but it is not
> so elegant.
>
> Here is what I need for logging my workouts (I am in the US):
>
> 1) Swim - I swim in 50 meter pools, 25 yard pools and in open water
> where distances are measure in either meters or miles. I would like to
> log my distances in the units that I used.
>
> 2) Bike - I always use miles, but races are sometimes 40K, so I would
> like to use both.
>
> 3) Run - I run on a 400 meter track, but my road and trail running is
> measured in miles.
>
> If you are going to present a summary view, I would be satisfied if the
> units were local (miles), but the ultimate would be if I could specifiy
> yards or meters for swimming.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray

Righto. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see what I can do to
accomodate...it's not nearly has hard as allowing for body weight in British
units (Stone and Lbs). I just want to make sure I get it right during the
design phase, because once it's committed to code it's a lot harder to
change.

GG

01-29-2005, 11:15 AM

"GaryG" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:g3zKd.18177$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> I'm working on a triathlete-specific training diary program (it will be a
> spin-off of my CycliStats bicycling log - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ).
>
> The cycling program currently has a program option setting for "Units of
> Distance" (metric or US). If I follow the conventions from my previous
> programs, if you choose US distance units of measure you would log bike
> and
> run distances in miles, and thus swim distances would be tracked by yards.
> But, I'm not sure if this will be correct.
>
> It's important in software development to get these kinds of questions
> answered upfront, because getting it wrong in the design phase can be a
> nightmare to correct later on. So, some questions for the group:
>
> 1) If you track bike/run distance in miles, would you also want to track
> all
> swim distances in yards?

Not necessarily - certainly not ALL. Being a US resident, I record _almost_
all of my biking in miles (see below) but neverthless often swim in a 50m
metric pool. See below.

> 2) Likewise, if you track bike/run in km, would you always want to track
> swim distance in meters?

Again, not necessarily. I often do Olympic distance triathlons and therefore
like to occasionally record time trials for 40K bike rides and 10K runs even
though most of my bike and run training is in miles. There are also times
when I swim in a US pool and record yards or in open water where I measure
my workouts in miles.

Also consider that the most common running events in the US are measured as
5Ks, 10Ks, and 13.1 miles, and 26.2 miles which is itself a mixture of units
and many triathletes use these events as training opportunities.

> 3) Would there be any circumstances in which you would sometimes wish to
> record swim distance in yards, and other times in meters (regardless of
> how
> you record bike/run distance)?

Absolutley. Try this crazy example on for size: the pool I do most of my
swimming in is set up for 50m metric distances during the school year when
swim teams use it, then they turn the lane lines sideways to create a 25
yard recreational pool the rest of the year.

IMHO the ideal solution (noted in a different post) to have the program
defult to certain units of measure based on the user's selected preferences,
but still allow switching to any unit of measure for any given workout. If
you are familiar with Photoshop look at the way it handles units as an
example. You can choose inches, pica, pixels, mm, etc. as the default unit
of measure under the programs user preferences and that will be the default
unit which first appears when you create a new file and are asked for the
image size. But, for any given action, you can switch (via pull down menu)
a different unit of measure if it is more appropriate at the moment.

My $.02 (US)

John

ZackJones · 01-30-2005, 11:12 AM

Gary,

I just wanted to make an offer to help beta test your new application. I'm a software developer as well and would be happy to help test and provide feedback on your application.

01-30-2005, 02:20 PM

"ZackJones" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au> wrote in
message news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au...
>
> Gary,
>
> I just wanted to make an offer to help beta test your new application.
> I'm a software developer as well and would be happy to help test and
> provide feedback on your application.
>

That would be great...I expect it to be ready within a month or two. A lot
of the development work is already done and in production (it's a spin-off
of my cycling and running programs which have been on the market for a
couple of years).

The program will be offered for download as a free, fully functional, 30-day
trial version, and with an "introductory price" (not yet determined). Also,
I have a "bug finder discount" policy - anyone who first reports a confirmed
bug during their trial period is sent a link for $10 off the current price.
Multiple bug reports, or "above and beyond" feedback can earn a free
registration.

When it's ready for testing, I'll post a notice in this ng.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

>
> --
> ZackJones
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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