Number 1390 and other IM Hawaii musings - Triathlon Week

11-23-2004, 02:06 PM

Okay, I've finished watching the tape, and the guy who had to walk 7
miles after he got hit by a motorcycle and had his bike totalled was
pretty impressive. Does anyone know if the motorcycle that hit him was
one with a race marshall? Man, would I be pissed if that happened to me.

I was a little confused by the story about the woman amputee. I was
sorry she missed the bike cutoff, but I thought I heard her claim no
woman amputee had ever finished or even attempted an Ironman. Didn't I
read about a woman amputee completing an Ironman recently (maybe
Madison)?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

11-24-2004, 06:28 AM

I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.

At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.

In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
finished IWTC", no an IM distance.

Mark

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> Okay, I've finished watching the tape, and the guy who had to walk 7
> miles after he got hit by a motorcycle and had his bike totalled was
> pretty impressive. Does anyone know if the motorcycle that hit him was
> one with a race marshall? Man, would I be pissed if that happened to me.
>
> I was a little confused by the story about the woman amputee. I was
> sorry she missed the bike cutoff, but I thought I heard her claim no
> woman amputee had ever finished or even attempted an Ironman. Didn't I
> read about a woman amputee completing an Ironman recently (maybe
> Madison)?
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

11-24-2004, 07:09 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:

> I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
> watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
>
> At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
> Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
>
> In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
> finished IWTC", no an IM distance.

But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM Wisconsin,
I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
check.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

11-24-2004, 09:11 AM

In article
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
>
> > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
> > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
> >
> > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
> > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
> >
> > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
> > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
>
>
> But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM Wisconsin,
> I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
> check.

I was right. Here's some info:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

11-26-2004, 01:06 PM

I heard that the motorcycle that hit 1390 was a media motorcycle. The
bike that was presented to him was a Cannondale. And I believe the
story line was that a woman has never done the Hawaii IM world
championship.

Diana

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> In article
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
> >
> > > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
> > > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
> > >
> > > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
> > > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
> > >
> > > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
> > > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
> >
> >
> > But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM Wisconsin,
> > I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
> > check.
>
>
> I was right. Here's some info:
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

11-26-2004, 01:39 PM

Here's an article from Cannodale's website about the motorcycle incident.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

"Diana" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:cc8c4cb0.0411261206.6f19c778@posting.google.c om...
> I heard that the motorcycle that hit 1390 was a media motorcycle. The
> bike that was presented to him was a Cannondale. And I believe the
> story line was that a woman has never done the Hawaii IM world
> championship.
>
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> > In article
> > <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
> > Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> > > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
> > >
> > > > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
> > > > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
> > > >
> > > > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
> > > > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
> > > >
> > > > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
> > > > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
> > >
> > >
> > > But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM
Wisconsin,
> > > I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
> > > check.
> >
> >
> > I was right. Here's some info:
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson

11-27-2004, 11:38 AM

Speaking from personal experience, the media motorcycles are usually more
experienced riders, especially the NBC guys. The race officials on the other
hand is pretty hit or miss. Some course marshalls have very little riding
experience and are obviously on rented motorcycles. This information is
somewhat dated, but I have not heard that they have changed how they reward
the course marshall positions to friends of WTC who want access to the
course.
andy
"Diana" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:cc8c4cb0.0411261206.6f19c778@posting.google.c om...
>I heard that the motorcycle that hit 1390 was a media motorcycle. The
> bike that was presented to him was a Cannondale. And I believe the
> story line was that a woman has never done the Hawaii IM world
> championship.
>
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
>> In article
>> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
>> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
>> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
>> >
>> > > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
>> > > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
>> > >
>> > > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
>> > > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
>> > >
>> > > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
>> > > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
>> >
>> >
>> > But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM Wisconsin,
>> > I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
>> > check.
>>
>>
>> I was right. Here's some info:
>>
>> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>>
>> --Harold Buck
>>
>>
>> "I used to rock and roll all night,
>> and party every day.
>> Then it was every other day. . . ."
>> -Homer J. Simpson

11-29-2004, 10:38 AM

Other IM events may be different, but at IM WI, the motorcyclist are
all very experienced. One or two of the local motorcycle clubs (I
think one was a BMW club) have volunteered all three years. Maybe the
clubs have some internal politicking as who really gets to drive, but
the race offcials didn't hand pick who did.

Mark

"andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote in message news:<9c6d8$41a8c98a$44a42dcf$10907@msgid.meganews servers.com>...
> Speaking from personal experience, the media motorcycles are usually more
> experienced riders, especially the NBC guys. The race officials on the other
> hand is pretty hit or miss. Some course marshalls have very little riding
> experience and are obviously on rented motorcycles. This information is
> somewhat dated, but I have not heard that they have changed how they reward
> the course marshall positions to friends of WTC who want access to the
> course.
> andy
> "Diana" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:cc8c4cb0.0411261206.6f19c778@posting.google.c om...
> >I heard that the motorcycle that hit 1390 was a media motorcycle. The
> > bike that was presented to him was a Cannondale. And I believe the
> > story line was that a woman has never done the Hawaii IM world
> > championship.
> >
> > Diana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> >> In article
> >> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
> >> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> >> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in. I
> >> > > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
> >> > >
> >> > > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
> >> > > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
> >> > >
> >> > > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
> >> > > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM Wisconsin,
> >> > I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I can't
> >> > check.
> >>
> >>
> >> I was right. Here's some info:
> >>
> >> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >>
> >> --Harold Buck
> >>
> >>
> >> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> >> and party every day.
> >> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> >> -Homer J. Simpson

11-29-2004, 11:07 AM

"andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote in message
news:<9c6d8$41a8c98a$44a42dcf$10907@msgid.meganews servers.com>...
> Speaking from personal experience, the media motorcycles are usually more
> experienced riders, especially the NBC guys. The race officials on the other
> hand is pretty hit or miss. Some course marshalls have very little riding
> experience and are obviously on rented motorcycles. This information is
> somewhat dated, but I have not heard that they have changed how they reward
> the course marshall positions to friends of WTC who want access to the
> course.
> andy

Well, the course marshalls don't drive motorcycles. They sit on the
back, since it would be a huge liability issue if they were supposed to
be officiating and driving at the same time.

I don't know where they get their drivers.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

11-29-2004, 03:23 PM

Well that's good to know they have changed their policy. It was a few years
ago when they used to issue motorcycles and striped shirts to large sponsors
so they could get access to the course. I doubt they had any officiating
role, just meant to get in the way. As they did when they used to hit
competitors.
andy

"Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> "andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote in message
> news:<9c6d8$41a8c98a$44a42dcf$10907@msgid.meganews servers.com>...
>> Speaking from personal experience, the media motorcycles are usually more
>> experienced riders, especially the NBC guys. The race officials on the
>> other
>> hand is pretty hit or miss. Some course marshalls have very little riding
>> experience and are obviously on rented motorcycles. This information is
>> somewhat dated, but I have not heard that they have changed how they
>> reward
>> the course marshall positions to friends of WTC who want access to the
>> course.
>> andy
>
> Well, the course marshalls don't drive motorcycles. They sit on the
> back, since it would be a huge liability issue if they were supposed to
> be officiating and driving at the same time.
>
> I don't know where they get their drivers.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

11-29-2004, 03:33 PM

I was a spectator at IM WI and it was very alarming to see the motorcycles
crowding the competitors through the feeding chute at the halfway point
(Verona?) They should not have even been allowed on this section, especially
with the volunteers coming 5 feet or more from the curb into the course to
also get closer to the competitors. Also it was obvious that the motorcycle
volunteers are drawn to the race leaders as moths to a flame. Dozens of
motorcycles around the first 5-6 competitors and virtually none in the mid
to back of the pack. Hard to believe they need more than one official per
rider for the front runners. The motorcycle riders may be experienced but
they didn't impress anybody w/ their experience with bicyclists. Everybody
meant well, but I was surprised to see no bad accidents, however, I am a
little paranoid w/ motorcycles and triathletes.
andy
"M Kochanski" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1767f76c.0411290938.57bf2b3f@posting.google.c om...
> Other IM events may be different, but at IM WI, the motorcyclist are
> all very experienced. One or two of the local motorcycle clubs (I
> think one was a BMW club) have volunteered all three years. Maybe the
> clubs have some internal politicking as who really gets to drive, but
> the race offcials didn't hand pick who did.
>
> Mark
>
> "andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote in message
> news:<9c6d8$41a8c98a$44a42dcf$10907@msgid.meganews servers.com>...
>> Speaking from personal experience, the media motorcycles are usually more
>> experienced riders, especially the NBC guys. The race officials on the
>> other
>> hand is pretty hit or miss. Some course marshalls have very little riding
>> experience and are obviously on rented motorcycles. This information is
>> somewhat dated, but I have not heard that they have changed how they
>> reward
>> the course marshall positions to friends of WTC who want access to the
>> course.
>> andy
>> "Diana" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>> news:cc8c4cb0.0411261206.6f19c778@posting.google.c om...
>> >I heard that the motorcycle that hit 1390 was a media motorcycle. The
>> > bike that was presented to him was a Cannondale. And I believe the
>> > story line was that a woman has never done the Hawaii IM world
>> > championship.
>> >
>> > Diana
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>> > news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
>> >> In article
>> >> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>,
>> >> Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
>> >> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (M Kochanski) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > I heard it was a race marshal's motorcycle. Saw him walking in.
>> >> > > I
>> >> > > watched for myself to come zipping by on my bike, no luck there.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > At the awards ceremony, he got a new high end bike, from maybe
>> >> > > Canondale, or whoever is a major bike sponsor for ITWC.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In regards to the woman amputee, I think the story line was "never
>> >> > > finished IWTC", no an IM distance.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > But I'm pretty sure the one I read about WAS a WTC race (IM
>> >> > Wisconsin,
>> >> > I think). I just threw out all of my old magazines, though, so I
>> >> > can't
>> >> > check.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I was right. Here's some info:
>> >>
>> >> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>> >>
>> >> --Harold Buck
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "I used to rock and roll all night,
>> >> and party every day.
>> >> Then it was every other day. . . ."
>> >> -Homer J. Simpson

11-29-2004, 05:45 PM

In article <4795$41aba3bf$44a42dd4$17263@msgid.meganewsserver s.com>,
"andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote:

> I was a spectator at IM WI and it was very alarming to see the motorcycles
> crowding the competitors through the feeding chute at the halfway point
> (Verona?) They should not have even been allowed on this section, especially
> with the volunteers coming 5 feet or more from the curb into the course to
> also get closer to the competitors. Also it was obvious that the motorcycle
> volunteers are drawn to the race leaders as moths to a flame. Dozens of
> motorcycles around the first 5-6 competitors and virtually none in the mid
> to back of the pack. Hard to believe they need more than one official per
> rider for the front runners. The motorcycle riders may be experienced but
> they didn't impress anybody w/ their experience with bicyclists. Everybody
> meant well, but I was surprised to see no bad accidents, however, I am a
> little paranoid w/ motorcycles and triathletes.

I lifeguarded on the ocean for almost 20 years, and we held a lot of
competitions. I *ALWAYS* would pick one paddleboard volunteer and have
them hang out with the first 15-20 swimmers in a distance race and have
the rest hang out with the back of the pack (where you'll have the
poorer swimmers). If you don't do that, you get what you noted: everyone
trying to flank the leader and no one in the back. This is more of a
safety issue with the swim, but the same thing happens in the bike.

Perhaps this explains why I always see a million people drafting in the
races I do and never see a freakin' race marshall. Sure, at some level,
I understand that it's more important to catch it if the leaders are
drafting, but often the leader for an age group is in the middle to the
back of the pack. Plus, I paid my money just the same as everyone else,
and I'd like to see the rules enforced.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

11-30-2004, 06:06 AM

"andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote:

>I was a spectator at IM WI and it was very alarming to see the motorcycles
>crowding the competitors through the feeding chute at the halfway point
>(Verona?) They should not have even been allowed on this section, especially
>with the volunteers coming 5 feet or more from the curb into the course to
>also get closer to the competitors. Also it was obvious that the motorcycle
>volunteers are drawn to the race leaders as moths to a flame. Dozens of
>motorcycles around the first 5-6 competitors and virtually none in the mid
>to back of the pack. Hard to believe they need more than one official per
>rider for the front runners. The motorcycle riders may be experienced but
>they didn't impress anybody w/ their experience with bicyclists. Everybody
>meant well, but I was surprised to see no bad accidents, however, I am a
>little paranoid w/ motorcycles and triathletes.
>andy

Andy,

Perhaps if you didn't so obviously exaggerate, or at least exhibited a
rudimentary knowledge of how officials work a race, I might take you
seriously.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

11-30-2004, 06:26 AM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Perhaps this explains why I always see a million people drafting in the
>races I do and never see a freakin' race marshall. Sure, at some level,
>I understand that it's more important to catch it if the leaders are
>drafting, but often the leader for an age group is in the middle to the
>back of the pack. Plus, I paid my money just the same as everyone else,
>and I'd like to see the rules enforced.
>
>--Harold Buck
>

Harold,

I think we need to differentiate what one might see at an IM from
other races.

Because of the mass start, the age group leaders WILL be at the front
of the pack in an IM. They're racing for IMH slots, etc, so the focus
of the officials, particularly in the early stages, will be at the
front. However, there are officials at the back watching. I'm always
back there and I'll see an official at least once or twice a loop.

The other difference is that officials do cost an RD money. They're
not free. So you won't see a lot of officials at smaller races that
don't have the re$ources that WCT has.

And consider how many officials it would take to actually cover 56
miles of highway. It can't be done.

I agree that rules need to be enforced across the board, but doing it
with limited resources (and a limited # of qualified officials) is
another thing.

I wish some of the old guard RST posters were still here. A certain
one named Charlie would add some perspective from an officials
viewpoint.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

11-30-2004, 06:52 AM

Mike,
Please give me an example, or are you saying all my statements are
exagerated? Your posts are usually very informative so I would like to gain
perspective if necessary.
thanx,
andy
"Mike Tennent" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> "andy" <trifox13atcovaddotnet> wrote:
>
>>I was a spectator at IM WI and it was very alarming to see the motorcycles
>>crowding the competitors through the feeding chute at the halfway point
>>(Verona?) They should not have even been allowed on this section,
>>especially
>>with the volunteers coming 5 feet or more from the curb into the course to
>>also get closer to the competitors. Also it was obvious that the
>>motorcycle
>>volunteers are drawn to the race leaders as moths to a flame. Dozens of
>>motorcycles around the first 5-6 competitors and virtually none in the mid
>>to back of the pack. Hard to believe they need more than one official per
>>rider for the front runners. The motorcycle riders may be experienced but
>>they didn't impress anybody w/ their experience with bicyclists. Everybody
>>meant well, but I was surprised to see no bad accidents, however, I am a
>>little paranoid w/ motorcycles and triathletes.
>>andy
>
>
> Andy,
>
> Perhaps if you didn't so obviously exaggerate, or at least exhibited a
> rudimentary knowledge of how officials work a race, I might take you
> seriously.
>
> Mike Tennent
> "IronPenguin"
>