Swimming times - Triathlon Week

09-14-2004, 02:00 AM

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Hi all, I have been training for 1 1/2 months for doing an olympic distance
triathlon next year. Currently I am only doing 1 pool session per week but I
will increase it to 2 next week (our local pool was closed).

What I have been wondering is this: my swimming times are horrible. I can
swim without a break for over an hour, but my speed is very low. I complete
a 1.5K swim at about 32-33 minutes. To increase my speed I am doing 15x100
intervals at the pool with about 30 seconds rest between. My interval times
are 1:57-1:58.
Is there any hope for my swimming times to improve using this methodology?
Or am I better off trying some other type of training? What should my time
goal be for the next 3 months or 6 months, given that my endurance is good
(or so I think) and my age, 33.

Thanks for any help.

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09-14-2004, 06:30 PM

Good Luck,
Intervals will help but forming good technique will pay great dividens.
Good technique is like the difference between a farm tractoor and a speed
boat going throught he water. Look up Total Immersion on the net. Take a
swim clinic and watch the times fall.
good Luck
Mike

"Burak Ilter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].tr> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
> Hi all, I have been training for 1 1/2 months for doing an olympic
distance
> triathlon next year. Currently I am only doing 1 pool session per week but
I
> will increase it to 2 next week (our local pool was closed).
>
> What I have been wondering is this: my swimming times are horrible. I can
> swim without a break for over an hour, but my speed is very low. I
complete
> a 1.5K swim at about 32-33 minutes. To increase my speed I am doing 15x100
> intervals at the pool with about 30 seconds rest between. My interval
times
> are 1:57-1:58.
> Is there any hope for my swimming times to improve using this methodology?
> Or am I better off trying some other type of training? What should my time
> goal be for the next 3 months or 6 months, given that my endurance is good
> (or so I think) and my age, 33.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
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09-15-2004, 12:57 PM

> Is there any hope for my swimming times to improve using this methodology?
> Or am I better off trying some other type of training?

Swimming technique is vastly more important than swimming fitness.
Before embarking on a serious campaign to improve fitness, is your
technique everything it needs to be?

09-20-2004, 08:49 AM

no

Sorry, but you're not working hard enough. 3-5 sessions a week, 3 of which
should be interval sessions. You have to swim fast to swim fast.

Ray

> Is there any hope for my swimming times to improve using this methodology?
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
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09-20-2004, 09:29 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"Ray Plotecia" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
> Sorry, but you're not working hard enough. 3-5 sessions a week, 3 of which
> should be interval sessions. You have to swim fast to swim fast.
>

Well, that's a tautology. But it depends. If you're really slow, you can
speed up a LOT by working on technique and never doing a single
interval.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

09-21-2004, 03:24 PM

I know it sounds like a tautology but what I'm saying is that you have to do
fast interval work in training if you want to swim fast in a race.

Ray
"Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> "Ray Plotecia" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry, but you're not working hard enough. 3-5 sessions a week, 3 of
which
> > should be interval sessions. You have to swim fast to swim fast.
> >
>
>
> Well, that's a tautology. But it depends. If you're really slow, you can
> speed up a LOT by working on technique and never doing a single
> interval.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

09-23-2004, 10:28 AM

Guys, don't forget one very simple fact - as you get tired, your
technique goes to hell in a handbasket. The more tired you get, the
worse it gets. Practice technique all you want, but that alone will
never make you fast, especially for longer distances. A proper swim
program will also include strength training, endurance training, and
speed training. The first two are critical to MAINTAINING good technique
throughout the distance, while the latter is necessary in order to
improve your overall speed. Any coach that preaches just technique,
technique, technique is selling you short.
Swimming is just like any of the legs - you need a rounded training
program to really do well. Most cycling and running coaches endorse
interval training to improve your speed in these disciplines. The same
applies to swimming. Remember, if you can't do it in practice, you won't
be able to do it in a race.

Ray Plotecia wrote:
>
> I know it sounds like a tautology but what I'm saying is that you have to do
> fast interval work in training if you want to swim fast in a race.
>
> Ray
> "Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> > In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> > "Ray Plotecia" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry, but you're not working hard enough. 3-5 sessions a week, 3 of
> which
> > > should be interval sessions. You have to swim fast to swim fast.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Well, that's a tautology. But it depends. If you're really slow, you can
> > speed up a LOT by working on technique and never doing a single
> > interval.
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson

09-23-2004, 10:45 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>, Top Dog <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

> Guys, don't forget one very simple fact - as you get tired, your
> technique goes to hell in a handbasket. The more tired you get, the
> worse it gets. Practice technique all you want, but that alone will
> never make you fast, especially for longer distances. A proper swim
> program will also include strength training, endurance training, and
> speed training. The first two are critical to MAINTAINING good technique
> throughout the distance, while the latter is necessary in order to
> improve your overall speed. Any coach that preaches just technique,
> technique, technique is selling you short.
> Swimming is just like any of the legs - you need a rounded training
> program to really do well. Most cycling and running coaches endorse
> interval training to improve your speed in these disciplines. The same
> applies to swimming. Remember, if you can't do it in practice, you won't
> be able to do it in a race.

I'm just saying that it's not right to say the only way to get faster is
to swim intervals in practice. If your techinque is really bad, you can
get *way* faster by doing technique work. As you say, that will only get
you so far, but for some people that is already pretty far.

And, as I'm sure you know, if your technique sucks you can do all the
intervals in the world and you aren't going to gain anywhere near as
much speed as a little technique work will get you.

But, sure, if your technique is okay, do intervals if you want to get
faster.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

09-23-2004, 11:07 AM

> I'm just saying that it's not right to say the only way to get faster is
> to swim intervals in practice. If your techinque is really bad, you can
> get *way* faster by doing technique work. As you say, that will only get
> you so far, but for some people that is already pretty far.
>
> And, as I'm sure you know, if your technique sucks you can do all the
> intervals in the world and you aren't going to gain anywhere near as
> much speed as a little technique work will get you.
>
> But, sure, if your technique is okay, do intervals if you want to get
> faster.

There's never an "only way". :-)
So much depends on your skill level. I know some people who have strokes
so bad that technique improvement will give them the best bang for the
buck, so to speak. As your skill improves, the bang becomes more of a
whisper. Local legend Josh Davis, for instance would likely get little
if any help from technique training. :-) My reading of Ray is that he
was speaking to a fairly good swimmer.
A good program is both rounded and designed for the particular athlete
who is training. You can't focus on one or two elements exclusively.
My wife is a great example of the need for balance. She picked up both
swimming and tris for the first time this year, at the age of 45.
Overall, she swam fairly well, but had a few big holes in her stroke.
She also couldn't go more than 50 yds without sucking air on the wall
for 30 seconds, and the more she swam, the more tired she became, and
the worse her stroke got. Her initial training focused on stroke work
and endurance training, and later added strength and intervals. She now
can do a 400 in under 8:00, which I consider dang good for someone who
never did any real swimming before 6 months ago! During the offseason,
she'll focus on strength training (high rep, low weight) and core
conditioning\stretching. Both of these are a great help to ANYONE'S
training program, and that goes for cycling and running as well, not
just swimming!

Zylo · 09-24-2004, 04:55 AM

Just worry about your technique.

Always keep this in mind:

You can't win the race in the swim. But you can lose the race.

The important thing is to finish the swim and still feel "fresh".

Make it your goal to be able to swim a comfortable pace that you can maintain for a half hour and feel great after. The speed comes with time.

Worry about your running speed the most.
Biking Speed second.
Swimming, just finish feeling fresh :)

09-24-2004, 05:36 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au>,
Zylo <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au> wrote:

>
> Just worry about your technique.
>
> Always keep this in mind:
>
> You can't win the race in the swim. But you can lose the race.
>
> The important thing is to finish the swim and still feel "fresh".
>
> Make it your goal to be able to swim a comfortable pace that you can
> maintain for a half hour and feel great after. The speed comes with
> time.
>
> Worry about your running speed the most.
> Biking Speed second.
> Swimming, just finish feeling fresh

Do you fill your wetsuit with Summer's Eve?

Anyway, why wouldn't you workk on bike speed first since that's the
longest component in most races.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

09-24-2004, 06:05 AM

The race is usually decided in the run. Statistically, there is the
highest time difference between the median and top 5% in the run, and
the bike is #2, with a much lesser difference.

However, I'd say that a lot of that depends on your strengths and
weaknesses. You're likely going to have the most improvement if you work
more on your weakest leg. One problem with biking is that the faster you
get, the less time difference a 1-2mph increase makes. Improving from a
15mph average to 17mph will net you close to 30 sec per mile (a huge
gain!), while going from 21mph - 23mph will gain you less than 15sec per
mile. While that's still a decent time gain, it's a lot less than the
other.
The other problem is that it's much easier to improve when we're NOT too
good at a leg than when we're already pretty good. The faster we are,
the harder it is to continue getting faster. It would probably take less
effort to improve from a 15 to 17mph average bike speed than to go from
21 to 22mph, or from a 10:00 mile running to a 8:30 mile than from 6:30
to 6:00...

Harold Buck wrote:
>
> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au>,
> Zylo <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au> wrote:
>
> >
> > Just worry about your technique.
> >
> > Always keep this in mind:
> >
> > You can't win the race in the swim. But you can lose the race.
> >
> > The important thing is to finish the swim and still feel "fresh".
> >
> > Make it your goal to be able to swim a comfortable pace that you can
> > maintain for a half hour and feel great after. The speed comes with
> > time.
> >
> > Worry about your running speed the most.
> > Biking Speed second.
> > Swimming, just finish feeling fresh
>
> Do you fill your wetsuit with Summer's Eve?
>
> Anyway, why wouldn't you workk on bike speed first since that's the
> longest component in most races.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

09-24-2004, 06:14 AM

Agreed, in a race, focusing on speed is a bad idea. "Speed" is
deceptive. To most people, that means fast turnover, which usually leads
to a SLOWER time. Instead, think about swimming "long and strong" -
long, strong strokes, taking your time. "Cruise" your swim, don't go all
out. You'll probably have a much faster time.

For practices, most people probably should work on speed, and definitely
on things other than technique. The goal is to improve your "cruising
speed", or the "comfortable pace that you can maintain for a half hour
and feel great after". You can only do that by having a rounded program.
Technique alone will only be helpful until you start to get tired, and a
half hour is a long time to swim without having decent strength and
endurance to go with it.

Zylo wrote:
>
> Just worry about your technique.
>
> Always keep this in mind:
>
> You can't win the race in the swim. But you can lose the race.
>
> The important thing is to finish the swim and still feel "fresh".
>
> Make it your goal to be able to swim a comfortable pace that you can
> maintain for a half hour and feel great after. The speed comes with
> time.
>
> Worry about your running speed the most.
> Biking Speed second.
> Swimming, just finish feeling fresh :)
>
> --
> Zylo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zylo's Profile: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> View this thread: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

09-24-2004, 07:10 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>, Top Dog <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

> The race is usually decided in the run. Statistically, there is the
> highest time difference between the median and top 5% in the run, and
> the bike is #2, with a much lesser difference.

Although some of that difference in run speed can be attributed to
biking fitness. If it takes me more effort to go the same speed as you
go on the bike, that's going to cut into my run time.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

09-24-2004, 11:19 AM

Harold Buck wrote:

> Although some of that difference in run speed can be attributed to
> biking fitness. If it takes me more effort to go the same speed as you
> go on the bike, that's going to cut into my run time.

Good point. How hard you push the bike clearly would affect your run
time. Although, it may not be so much about speed - Lance could smoke me
on a bike and put forth half the effort doing it. If you're in the red
zone much of the time on the bike, you're going to be sucking eggs on
the run, guaranteed. That's probably where a better triathlete can
really make out - knowing where to push and how much, and when to back
off a bit.