Strong Vs Fast - Triathlon Week

09-08-2004, 05:31 PM

Is a fast swim - where you're sprinting and "slipping" (as
in pealing out) worth as much (in training/working out) as a
strong swim (where you are able to "catch" the water)?

I am trying to improve 1k - 1.5k swim times (I currently
have a 1:25 - 1:20 100yd pace that I can maintain). I've
plateaued a bit due to focusing my triathlon training on the
bike and run... But I had an "ahh... I get it" moment in the
pool the other day.

I was doing a sprint work out - repeat 25's 50's and 100's
which I max out at about 1:04/100yrd, :30/50yrd and
:13/25yrd. When I do this type of swimming my hands are
definitely slipping through the water (which I assume to be
wasted energy).

After the sprints I decided to do a stroke count (trying to
really stretch out each stroke) So I put some effort into
making them "strong" and came up with about 15 strokes/25yrd
(counting both hands). I noticed that my time was not all
the far off from my sprinting - slower yes - but
significantly better than my normal pace (I had always
thought that my stroke counting laps were slower - it feels
that way).

My time was 1:12ish for a 100yrd and was not at all out of
breath. Should this be the stroke that I focus on and
forget about the peeling out with the sprints?

Thanks!
-CF

09-09-2004, 04:43 AM

"ChronoFish" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in news:mvN%c.173655$Lj.137020
@fed1read03:

> Is a fast swim - where you're sprinting and "slipping" (as
> in pealing out) worth as much (in training/working out) as a
> strong swim (where you are able to "catch" the water)?
>
> I am trying to improve 1k - 1.5k swim times (I currently
> have a 1:25 - 1:20 100yd pace that I can maintain). I've
> plateaued a bit due to focusing my triathlon training on the
> bike and run... But I had an "ahh... I get it" moment in the
> pool the other day.
>
> I was doing a sprint work out - repeat 25's 50's and 100's
> which I max out at about 1:04/100yrd, :30/50yrd and
>:13/25yrd. When I do this type of swimming my hands are
> definitely slipping through the water (which I assume to be
> wasted energy).
>
> After the sprints I decided to do a stroke count (trying to
> really stretch out each stroke) So I put some effort into
> making them "strong" and came up with about 15 strokes/25yrd
> (counting both hands). I noticed that my time was not all
> the far off from my sprinting - slower yes - but
> significantly better than my normal pace (I had always
> thought that my stroke counting laps were slower - it feels
> that way).
>
> My time was 1:12ish for a 100yrd and was not at all out of
> breath. Should this be the stroke that I focus on and
> forget about the peeling out with the sprints?
>
> Thanks!
> -CF
>
>
>

No, you should focus on getting better at both. Being a better sprinter
will make your "efficient" swim faster also. Now, when you're swimming a
1500 for time, you should be going for the fastest speed you can maintain
(or slightly improve) over the whole distance. It should look nothing
like a sprint. But the sprints are still an important part of your
workout routine.

Tom

09-10-2004, 05:03 AM

"Totalswimm" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com...
>>>My time was 1:12ish for a 100yrd and was not at all out
>>>of
> breath. Should this be the stroke that I focus on and
> forget about the peeling out with the sprints?>>
>
> CF
> Forget the "sprinting" - as you currently practice it. All
> it accomplishes is
> to imprint inefficiency on your nervous system. Instead,
> use the sub-max
> "strong and efficient" swims as your basis and work at
> several things:
> 1) being able to sustain that kind of swimming longer
> 2) being able to repeat it with gradually less rest,
> 3) raising your efficiency even further -- i.e. being able
> to replicate it at
> 14spl (even if you reduce to that spl one lap/100 at a
> time.)
> 4) patiently allowing all of the above to translate into
> the capacity to swim
> 1:11 with the same sensation of effficiency and control --
> then 1:10, etc.
> "Speedwork" for someone training for a 1.5k constitutes
> any speed faster than
> your current race speed. If that speedwork is done
> efficiently, then you will
> have prepared yourself to swim the race the same way.
> Have fun.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yesterday morning I did just
this, and I like what is happening. I focused much more on
repeat "strong" 100s. I had several 14spl - but most of
them where 15spl. One amazing (to me) thing I noticed is
that I could tell instantly when my rest interval was too
short because my stroke count went up to 16 - and as might
be expected (at least in retrospect) - my time increased by
several seconds.

One thing about doing this is that it takes a huge mental
effort to keep the force up. But I can really feel the
difference and it just "makes sense" to me.

So this is great. I feel like this is the second time this
year that I've leap-frogged my performance by improving
technique rather than "doing the same thing I've always
done - just faster". Early this year it was the run, now
the swim.... now if I could just figure out a way to realize
the same on the bike!

-CF

09-10-2004, 09:49 AM

If you're training for distance swims, you should be focusing on technique
and distance per stroke.
Sprints are okay, but don't make them the central focus of your training...
maybe limit sprints to about 15% of your total training time.
You might want to focus on stroke technique drills maybe 25% of your
workouts, some cardio and strength work, and a fair amount of pace work,
probably 300's or 400 pace work.. or sets of 10x100 (hard but not sprints)
with only 5 sec. rest in between, trying to maintain as fast of a pace you
can through the 100's with only 5 seconds rest... like, 10x100 on 1:20
(which should include 5 sec rest) then in subsequent workouts decreasing
that to 1:15 or 1:10 or less, still including 5 sec rest... When you get to
a pace that you want, let's say, 10x100 on 1:10 with rest, start working on
decreasing the 5 sec. rest till you can hold the pace of 10x100's on 1:10
w/o rest.
5 seconds rest will give you just enough rest so that you can push a little
harder on the 100's and get the interval down... as you get used doing it
with just a tiny bit of rest, then you want to 'squish them together with
less and less rest, till you can maintain a certain interval w/o rest.

You want to go as fast as you can, without falling out of nice smooth stroke
technique.

Do some stroke drilling and fin kicking and paddle pulling on the warm-ups
and warmdowns. You may want to do a long warmdown with focus on stroke
drills... like 5x100 warmdown, 50 swim, 50 drill

"ChronoFish" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:mvN%c.173655$Lj.137020@fed1read03...
> Is a fast swim - where you're sprinting and "slipping" (as
> in pealing out) worth as much (in training/working out) as a
> strong swim (where you are able to "catch" the water)?
>
> I am trying to improve 1k - 1.5k swim times (I currently
> have a 1:25 - 1:20 100yd pace that I can maintain). I've
> plateaued a bit due to focusing my triathlon training on the
> bike and run... But I had an "ahh... I get it" moment in the
> pool the other day.
>
> I was doing a sprint work out - repeat 25's 50's and 100's
> which I max out at about 1:04/100yrd, :30/50yrd and
> :13/25yrd. When I do this type of swimming my hands are
> definitely slipping through the water (which I assume to be
> wasted energy).
>
> After the sprints I decided to do a stroke count (trying to
> really stretch out each stroke) So I put some effort into
> making them "strong" and came up with about 15 strokes/25yrd
> (counting both hands). I noticed that my time was not all
> the far off from my sprinting - slower yes - but
> significantly better than my normal pace (I had always
> thought that my stroke counting laps were slower - it feels
> that way).
>
> My time was 1:12ish for a 100yrd and was not at all out of
> breath. Should this be the stroke that I focus on and
> forget about the peeling out with the sprints?
>
> Thanks!
> -CF
>
>