Stone Steps 50k race report (Cincinnati) (long) - Triathlon Week

10-27-2004, 10:45 AM

Stone Steps 50k race report (Cincinnati)

As many of you know, my goal this year was to run an ultra-Marathon,
which is any running race over the standard 26.2 miles of a marathon.
The shortest ultras are 50 k, or about 31 miles, so that's what I
decided to shoot for.

Last fall, I searched online and discovered one in Spencer, Indiana,
scheduled for early November. I talked one of my friends from Minnesota,
Justin, into coming down to Indiana to do the race with me. We both
planned on running early October Marathons as part of our training (Twin
Cities for Justin, Milwaukee for me).

However, when I tried to look up the info about the run in Spencer this
fall I couldn't find anything online, so I started looking for other
races. There was a 50 k in Cincinnati three weeks after our Marathons
and a lakefront 50 in Chicago four weeks out. Then later I found out
that the 50 k in Spencer *was* being held, and that would be five weeks
from our Marathons. Now we had a decision to make.

We decided that the timing of the Spencer race wasn't the best, so we
had to pick between the other two. The Chicago course was flat and on
asphalt, while the Cincinnati course was hilly and on trails. I usually
try to run on trails whenever possible since I've had some trouble with
my left IT band and the softer trails help keep it under control., so we
opted for Cincinnati on October 24. This turned out to be a good choice
because Justin's team ended up qualifying for the national adventure
racing championships, which were scheduled for two weeks after the
Cincinnati race.

After running the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon, I really took it easy
for a week or so. I had one light run that week. The next week I started
having some back spasms--not horrible ones, but enough that I wasn't
excited about running--and I ended up only getting 5 short runs in
between the Marathon and the Ultra. I didn't think it would be a big
problem since all of the big training runs were already done.

Justin and Molly, his girlfriend (who I met for the first time on this
trip), flew into Indianapolis on Thursday night. I picked up my sister
at the airport on Saturday, who was coming in part to visit and in part
to help my wife with the two kids since my wife just had shoulder
surgery recently (ice-hockey injury), and we left for Cincinnati on
Saturday afternoon. As we drove into town, we saw what could only be
described as "mountains" to someone living in Indiana, and wondered what
we'd gotten ourselves into.

We stayed in a Days Inn in Cincinnati which, as one of the other guests
described it, was "kind of ghetto." Outside door locks were broken, the
room smelled a little funky, and it wasn't particularly clean.
Fortunately, we weren't going to be there long.

We headed to Olive Garden for dinner, endured the Saturday-night wait,
and loaded up on pasta, soup, and breadsticks. Then we headed back to
the hotel and tried to get some sleep.

We'd been told there were two start options: 7:00 and 8:00, with 7:00
being for "trekkers." It wasn't made clear exactly what the difference
was, but I'd found out that the winner of the previous year's race was a
1:20 half-Marathoner and it took him 4:43 to run this course. That made
me think the course must be pretty hard, so I thought maybe the 7:00
option would be better since there was a 4:00 p.m. cutoff and we had a
2-hour drive back to Indy when we were done.

We drove around the park in the dark and fog for a while before finding
the race site. I think we missed it the first time because there was no
one there yet. They explained that the 7:00 start was for "trekkers,"
which basically meant "hikers," and that you couldn't get an official
time under 8 hours if you took the early start (if you finished under 8
hours, they gave you a time of 8 hours; that way you couldn't beat
someone who started the race with the runners). We eventually decided to
wait for the 8:00 start and spent some time wishing we'd slept an extra
hour.

The course consists of two loops, one 5.3 miles and one 3.2 miles. You
alternate loops, starting and ending with the 5.3-mile loop, so you do
the long loop 4 times and the short loop 3 times. There was a pavilion
at the intersection of the loops, which served as an aid station and
start/finish line. You had access to your own gear and food there as
well.

It was cool in the morning, but the rain from the previous day had
stopped and it was supposed to get up to about 70 degrees, so the
weather was fine. We ran with long-sleeved T-shirts for the first lap
and then stripped down to T-shirts for the rest.

They lined us up, and one of the veterans had some words of advice: "Run
fast. Take chances. If you see a slick wooden bridge, run really hard
over it." Then we were off, and I was immediately at the back of the
pack. We ran on the road for a bit and then headed onto the "trail."

As I said, I run on trails all the time. However, the trails I use are
about 5 feet wide, fairly smooth, and covered with crushed rock. These
"trails" were essentially mud, with lots of roots and large rocks,
covered with a layer of wet leaves. The footing was really much worse
than I was used to, although Justin and Molly were more used to it from
doing adventure races. I twisted my ankles several times each, tripped
and almost fell several times, and fell over backwards once, thankfully
catching myself with my hands instead of landing flat on my back.

The trails were marked with orange flags hanging from the trees and
arrows painted on the ground, some of which had washed away. It was easy
to miss a turn if you didn't pay close attention; Justin and Molly saved
me from a few wrong turns.

The hills were far beyond anything you can find in Indy. I regularly run
the steepest hill around here, and that was nothing compared to the
hills on this course. We had planned on walking all of the steep hills,
and even walking them got us really out of breath. The worst part was
the "stone steps," which consisted of 200 to 300 deteriorating stone
steps up and extremely steep hill. These steps were on the long loop, so
you had to do them 4 times.

Even when we were running on relatively level ground, we were usually on
the side of a hill, so the ground was almost always sloping down from
right to left. The is the same thing that happens when you run on the
road against traffic, since the roads are cambered, which is why a lot
of runners have IT band problems in their left knees.

We ran the first loop in about 1:15, and the second in about 45 minutes.
This put us at 2 hours for the first two loops, so I figured at that
pace we were looking at finishing in 7:15, giving us only a 45-minute
cushion to make the cutoff. I decided that I shouldn't dawdle at the aid
station, so I grabbed another bottle of Gatorade and told Justin and
Molly to catch up with me since I knew I was holding them back.

I felt good starting the second lap, and I picked up the pace a little
(but not too much, since there was a long way to go). However, about 2
miles into the second lap I realized my IT band problem was flaring up,
and my left knee was getting really sore, especially on the downhills. I
pretty quickly came to the conclusion that this wasn't the day to try to
be a hero. If I kept running just so I could finish, I might not be able
to run for 6 months. And I could have ended up not being able to run for
6 months *and* not being able to finish. I told Justin and Molly that
this would be my last lap. They tried to talk me into one more lap, and
I thought about it, but every time we started to go downhill I knew I
was done.

When we got to the aid station, I asked if they had anyone who could
give me a cortisone shot, but since they didn't I told them I was out. I
wasn't the only one: there was one guy who sprained his ankle and 4
other people who had to quit out of 25 people total.

After I stopped, I grabbed a turkey sandwich out of our cooler, walked
out by the aid table, and immediately got stung by a bee--for the first
time in my life--on the arm ("A bee bit my bicep, and now my bicep's
big!"). I yelled, realized what was happening, and had the presence of
mind to choke off a "bad word" in mid-utterance because there was an
18-month-old standing right near me.

I finished my 13.8 miles at about 3 hours, 13 minutes. By way of
comparison, I ran 13.1 miles this summer in a triathlon in 2:06 after
swimming 1.2 miles and biking 56 miles. Justin and Molly kept going and
picked up the pace quite a bit, running the rest of the race about 20
minutes ahead of the pace we were on and finishing under 7 hours. Molly
was the second woman and got a really nice mug made by one of the race
organizers as an award.

The winner of the race was a few minutes off the course record, and he
beat the previous year's winner by about 5 minutes. The winner had run a
50-mile race on Friday before doing the 50K on Sunday. These
ultra-Marathoners are a different breed!

The deal was that Molly and Justin were supposed to split the driving on
the way back because I drove the whole way there. However, I felt like I
should drive since I was better rested at that point--I slept about 45
minutes in the car while they were doing their last lap--and I let them
sleep in the car.

I made a feast of home-made fried chicken wings and French fries when we
got back to the house, and we all went to bed as early as possible
(given that there are 2 young children in the house, that was about
9:30). We were all sore the next day, me mostly in my hips. Justin and
Molly waddled around the house as we got ready to go to the airport so
they could head back home.

It was an interesting race. I don't think I'd do it again, mostly
because there's no good way to train for it around here. I thought it
was very well run for a small race, and it was fun and cheap ($20 to
pre-register, and the aid station was well-stocked). I'll probably try
to do an ultra again sometime, possibly in 2006 since I'm planning to do
an Ironman-distance triathlon next September.

I was disappointed that I wasn't able to do the whole race, but I'm
confident I made the right decision. The terrain just wasn't conducive
to me finishing the race that day. My wife said she was kind of glad I
didn't do the whole thing so she didn't have to listen to me whine for 3
days about how sore I was. I'm going to try to focus on some much
shorter races (in the 3- to 6-mile range) for the winter to try to build
some speed.

As far as I can remember, that's the first race I've ever dropped out
of, and hopefully it will be the last.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

10-27-2004, 12:45 PM

Sorry to hear you had to drop, but I do think you made the right
decision. It's not worth having to rehab your ITB. But now you know
to choose a flat ultra if possible, or just make sure you go up and over
the hills instead of on their shoulders. I'm sure, with the right kind
of terrain, you'll be able to do it just fine next time! (And maybe
practice on some rougher stuff too, so you don't twist the ankles).
Sounds like a neat race, though!

Teresa in AZ

Harold Buck wrote:

> Stone Steps 50k race report (Cincinnati)
>
> As many of you know, my goal this year was to run an ultra-Marathon,
> which is any running race over the standard 26.2 miles of a marathon.
> The shortest ultras are 50 k, or about 31 miles, so that's what I
> decided to shoot for.
>
> Last fall, I searched online and discovered one in Spencer, Indiana,
> scheduled for early November. I talked one of my friends from Minnesota,
> Justin, into coming down to Indiana to do the race with me. We both
> planned on running early October Marathons as part of our training (Twin
> Cities for Justin, Milwaukee for me).
>
> However, when I tried to look up the info about the run in Spencer this
> fall I couldn't find anything online, so I started looking for other
> races. There was a 50 k in Cincinnati three weeks after our Marathons
> and a lakefront 50 in Chicago four weeks out. Then later I found out
> that the 50 k in Spencer *was* being held, and that would be five weeks
> from our Marathons. Now we had a decision to make.
>
> We decided that the timing of the Spencer race wasn't the best, so we
> had to pick between the other two. The Chicago course was flat and on
> asphalt, while the Cincinnati course was hilly and on trails. I usually
> try to run on trails whenever possible since I've had some trouble with
> my left IT band and the softer trails help keep it under control., so we
> opted for Cincinnati on October 24. This turned out to be a good choice
> because Justin's team ended up qualifying for the national adventure
> racing championships, which were scheduled for two weeks after the
> Cincinnati race.
>
> After running the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon, I really took it easy
> for a week or so. I had one light run that week. The next week I started
> having some back spasms--not horrible ones, but enough that I wasn't
> excited about running--and I ended up only getting 5 short runs in
> between the Marathon and the Ultra. I didn't think it would be a big
> problem since all of the big training runs were already done.
>
> Justin and Molly, his girlfriend (who I met for the first time on this
> trip), flew into Indianapolis on Thursday night. I picked up my sister
> at the airport on Saturday, who was coming in part to visit and in part
> to help my wife with the two kids since my wife just had shoulder
> surgery recently (ice-hockey injury), and we left for Cincinnati on
> Saturday afternoon. As we drove into town, we saw what could only be
> described as "mountains" to someone living in Indiana, and wondered what
> we'd gotten ourselves into.
>
> We stayed in a Days Inn in Cincinnati which, as one of the other guests
> described it, was "kind of ghetto." Outside door locks were broken, the
> room smelled a little funky, and it wasn't particularly clean.
> Fortunately, we weren't going to be there long.
>
> We headed to Olive Garden for dinner, endured the Saturday-night wait,
> and loaded up on pasta, soup, and breadsticks. Then we headed back to
> the hotel and tried to get some sleep.
>
> We'd been told there were two start options: 7:00 and 8:00, with 7:00
> being for "trekkers." It wasn't made clear exactly what the difference
> was, but I'd found out that the winner of the previous year's race was a
> 1:20 half-Marathoner and it took him 4:43 to run this course. That made
> me think the course must be pretty hard, so I thought maybe the 7:00
> option would be better since there was a 4:00 p.m. cutoff and we had a
> 2-hour drive back to Indy when we were done.
>
> We drove around the park in the dark and fog for a while before finding
> the race site. I think we missed it the first time because there was no
> one there yet. They explained that the 7:00 start was for "trekkers,"
> which basically meant "hikers," and that you couldn't get an official
> time under 8 hours if you took the early start (if you finished under 8
> hours, they gave you a time of 8 hours; that way you couldn't beat
> someone who started the race with the runners). We eventually decided to
> wait for the 8:00 start and spent some time wishing we'd slept an extra
> hour.
>
> The course consists of two loops, one 5.3 miles and one 3.2 miles. You
> alternate loops, starting and ending with the 5.3-mile loop, so you do
> the long loop 4 times and the short loop 3 times. There was a pavilion
> at the intersection of the loops, which served as an aid station and
> start/finish line. You had access to your own gear and food there as
> well.
>
> It was cool in the morning, but the rain from the previous day had
> stopped and it was supposed to get up to about 70 degrees, so the
> weather was fine. We ran with long-sleeved T-shirts for the first lap
> and then stripped down to T-shirts for the rest.
>
> They lined us up, and one of the veterans had some words of advice: "Run
> fast. Take chances. If you see a slick wooden bridge, run really hard
> over it." Then we were off, and I was immediately at the back of the
> pack. We ran on the road for a bit and then headed onto the "trail."
>
> As I said, I run on trails all the time. However, the trails I use are
> about 5 feet wide, fairly smooth, and covered with crushed rock. These
> "trails" were essentially mud, with lots of roots and large rocks,
> covered with a layer of wet leaves. The footing was really much worse
> than I was used to, although Justin and Molly were more used to it from
> doing adventure races. I twisted my ankles several times each, tripped
> and almost fell several times, and fell over backwards once, thankfully
> catching myself with my hands instead of landing flat on my back.
>
> The trails were marked with orange flags hanging from the trees and
> arrows painted on the ground, some of which had washed away. It was easy
> to miss a turn if you didn't pay close attention; Justin and Molly saved
> me from a few wrong turns.
>
> The hills were far beyond anything you can find in Indy. I regularly run
> the steepest hill around here, and that was nothing compared to the
> hills on this course. We had planned on walking all of the steep hills,
> and even walking them got us really out of breath. The worst part was
> the "stone steps," which consisted of 200 to 300 deteriorating stone
> steps up and extremely steep hill. These steps were on the long loop, so
> you had to do them 4 times.
>
> Even when we were running on relatively level ground, we were usually on
> the side of a hill, so the ground was almost always sloping down from
> right to left. The is the same thing that happens when you run on the
> road against traffic, since the roads are cambered, which is why a lot
> of runners have IT band problems in their left knees.
>
> We ran the first loop in about 1:15, and the second in about 45 minutes.
> This put us at 2 hours for the first two loops, so I figured at that
> pace we were looking at finishing in 7:15, giving us only a 45-minute
> cushion to make the cutoff. I decided that I shouldn't dawdle at the aid
> station, so I grabbed another bottle of Gatorade and told Justin and
> Molly to catch up with me since I knew I was holding them back.
>
> I felt good starting the second lap, and I picked up the pace a little
> (but not too much, since there was a long way to go). However, about 2
> miles into the second lap I realized my IT band problem was flaring up,
> and my left knee was getting really sore, especially on the downhills. I
> pretty quickly came to the conclusion that this wasn't the day to try to
> be a hero. If I kept running just so I could finish, I might not be able
> to run for 6 months. And I could have ended up not being able to run for
> 6 months *and* not being able to finish. I told Justin and Molly that
> this would be my last lap. They tried to talk me into one more lap, and
> I thought about it, but every time we started to go downhill I knew I
> was done.
>
> When we got to the aid station, I asked if they had anyone who could
> give me a cortisone shot, but since they didn't I told them I was out. I
> wasn't the only one: there was one guy who sprained his ankle and 4
> other people who had to quit out of 25 people total.
>
> After I stopped, I grabbed a turkey sandwich out of our cooler, walked
> out by the aid table, and immediately got stung by a bee--for the first
> time in my life--on the arm ("A bee bit my bicep, and now my bicep's
> big!"). I yelled, realized what was happening, and had the presence of
> mind to choke off a "bad word" in mid-utterance because there was an
> 18-month-old standing right near me.
>
> I finished my 13.8 miles at about 3 hours, 13 minutes. By way of
> comparison, I ran 13.1 miles this summer in a triathlon in 2:06 after
> swimming 1.2 miles and biking 56 miles. Justin and Molly kept going and
> picked up the pace quite a bit, running the rest of the race about 20
> minutes ahead of the pace we were on and finishing under 7 hours. Molly
> was the second woman and got a really nice mug made by one of the race
> organizers as an award.
>
> The winner of the race was a few minutes off the course record, and he
> beat the previous year's winner by about 5 minutes. The winner had run a
> 50-mile race on Friday before doing the 50K on Sunday. These
> ultra-Marathoners are a different breed!
>
> The deal was that Molly and Justin were supposed to split the driving on
> the way back because I drove the whole way there. However, I felt like I
> should drive since I was better rested at that point--I slept about 45
> minutes in the car while they were doing their last lap--and I let them
> sleep in the car.
>
> I made a feast of home-made fried chicken wings and French fries when we
> got back to the house, and we all went to bed as early as possible
> (given that there are 2 young children in the house, that was about
> 9:30). We were all sore the next day, me mostly in my hips. Justin and
> Molly waddled around the house as we got ready to go to the airport so
> they could head back home.
>
> It was an interesting race. I don't think I'd do it again, mostly
> because there's no good way to train for it around here. I thought it
> was very well run for a small race, and it was fun and cheap ($20 to
> pre-register, and the aid station was well-stocked). I'll probably try
> to do an ultra again sometime, possibly in 2006 since I'm planning to do
> an Ironman-distance triathlon next September.
>
> I was disappointed that I wasn't able to do the whole race, but I'm
> confident I made the right decision. The terrain just wasn't conducive
> to me finishing the race that day. My wife said she was kind of glad I
> didn't do the whole thing so she didn't have to listen to me whine for 3
> days about how sore I was. I'm going to try to focus on some much
> shorter races (in the 3- to 6-mile range) for the winter to try to build
> some speed.
>
> As far as I can remember, that's the first race I've ever dropped out
> of, and hopefully it will be the last.
>
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

10-27-2004, 01:55 PM

Thanks for your report Harold; better luck next time. It's tough when you
can't complete your goal race for whatever reason. Usually I can tell a
couple of days before if I'm ready or not, and I've DNSed a few, though I've
been lucky enough to never DNF a race, though a few I should have DNFed.
It's good to know when to quit - I should have quit in my first 50 miler.
At the end of it I was lying on the ground for 2 hours too dizzy to sit up
and wanting to die. I wasn't dehydrated but was just extremely overtaxed
from lack of training. A few sodas and pieces of chicken later and I was
staggering back to my car...

Perhaps your specificity of training wasn't suited for either of your
races - the marathon on roads, or the trail race on more difficult trails
than you were used to. In my 50k this year, lucky for me, my training was
on far more difficult trails than my race. If you're used to running on
soft surfaces, a road marathon will wreak havoc on your body. The extra
pounding messed up your back, and that added to your problems during the 50k
and also affected your training. Even if you get your long runs in, you
need to keep doing quality runs during your taper, including some
medium-long runs, and not backing down your normal volume too much until the
last week. Sounds like you can find a better 50k to do than that one
anyway. Short loops can be very demoralizing, at least for me.

-Tony

10-27-2004, 04:01 PM

Wow that's actually kinda inspirational to me. Didn't know humans can run
that far in the first place! How long did it take you to work up to be able
to run that far? And, besides races, when training yourself at home how far
do you run to train for these races? I'm doing my first half-marathon this
weekend with 3 months of training behind me. I used to be in track in high
school, but stopped running for awhile and I'm back to running my sophomore
year of college. My goal is to run a marathon next year sometime and was
just wondering if you had any tips on running the distances you do and how
long it takes to work up to it.

You said your wife got injured playing hockey? Y'all must be a tough
couple.....

Jakob

10-27-2004, 06:37 PM

In article <clp9bi$t19$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"JaKoB" <jakob.jc@gmail......> wrote:

> Wow that's actually kinda inspirational to me. Didn't know humans can run
> that far in the first place! How long did it take you to work up to be able
> to run that far?

Well, it's kind of hard to say. I built up to my Ironman last fall over
a few years. I'd wanted to keep running through the winter, but I got
pretty sick and missed a few months, but I don't think I lost a whole
lot. In March I started building my long runs up slowly. My typical
buildup is to add a mile every week to my long run until I hit 10 miles,
then I go up 2 miles every other week (and do half the distance in the
other weeks). Thus, the buildup might look like:

5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 5, 12, 6, 14, 7, 16, 8, 18, 9, 20

However, I started my buildup with plenty of time, so I got to about 16
miles in June and didn't go any higher until August.My final taper
before my Marathon was 18-(skipped)-10-18-15-9-20-17-9 and then my race.

I'm trying to get more scientific about my training, and I may modify
this a bunch in the future.

> And, besides races, when training yourself at home how far
> do you run to train for these races? I'm doing my first half-marathon this
> weekend with 3 months of training behind me. I used to be in track in high
> school, but stopped running for awhile and I'm back to running my sophomore
> year of college. My goal is to run a marathon next year sometime and was
> just wondering if you had any tips on running the distances you do and how
> long it takes to work up to it.
>

Well, it varies depending on where you're starting from. If you're doing
a half-marathon this year I'd say you're at least half-way there :-)

There are some good books on training programs for a marathon. I'd say
find one you like and try it. Depending on where you live, you may be
able to join a running club or a training group as well.

I have "Four months to a four-hour marathon," which seems decent. "The
Essential Marathoner" looked good too. Keep running until it's time to
start the progam and then try to stick with it.

> You said your wife got injured playing hockey? Y'all must be a tough
> couple.....

Well, I think we'd be a pretty normal couple if it weren't for her part
in our image. We used to row lifeguard boats together, and she was
tough. Unfortunately, she HATES to run.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

10-28-2004, 12:30 AM

"Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> Stone Steps 50k race report (Cincinnati)

<snip>

Hi Harold, sorry to read about your DNF but given your problems, I'm sure it
was the right thing to do.

Something I just don't get though (and this is more to do with me than you)
is why on earth anyone would want to run a multi-lap ultra??

My ultra expereince is very limited but I've always run races that take me
somewhere I wanted to go and have always been A to B races where you have
the satisfaction of actually getting somewhere. The thought of running a
multi-lap course just to rack up the miles isn't one I'd begin to entertain.
(Don't get me started on those crazies who run 3,100 miles on a 1/2 mile
loop.)

Maybe there's something I just haven't "got" about ultra running yet but
somehow to run multi-lap ultras just seems to be missing the whole point of
ultra running (IMO of course).

Anyway, hope you recover quickly and can find a "proper" event to enter next
time. ;-)

Tim

10-28-2004, 04:04 AM

"Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com...
> Stone Steps 50k race report (Cincinnati)
>
> As many of you know, my goal this year was to run an ultra-Marathon,

Drum roll!

> and I ended up only getting 5 short runs in
> between the Marathon and the Ultra. I didn't think it would be a big
> problem since all of the big training runs were already done.

I don't read very many indvidual weekly mileage acccounts so could you
tell me how many long runs and of what number miles or length of time
you did for the marathon and miles per week as your basis for the ultra?

> We stayed in a Days Inn in Cincinnati which, as one of the other
> guests
> described it, was "kind of ghetto." Outside door locks were broken,
> the
> room smelled a little funky, and it wasn't particularly clean.
> Fortunately, we weren't going to be there long.

It's off my vacation list! ;)

> We'd been told there were two start options: 7:00 and 8:00, with 7:00
> being for "trekkers." It wasn't made clear exactly what the difference
> was,

Early starts are usually for those that want to run the course but will
be so slow they will not get under the cut off. Whether their time
counts, assuming they get under the max time, is up to the RD. OTOH,
speedsters and age group winners are NOT allowed to start early.

but I'd found out that the winner of the previous year's race was a
> 1:20 half-Marathoner and it took him 4:43 to run this course.

Was/is there a web page to describe the terrain? I'm a little surprised
that you didn't know this ahead of time.

> The course consists of two loops, one 5.3 miles and one 3.2 miles. You
> alternate loops, starting and ending with the 5.3-mile loop, so you do
> the long loop 4 times and the short loop 3 times. There was a pavilion
> at the intersection of the loops, which served as an aid station and
> start/finish line. You had access to your own gear and food there as
> well.

Some people don't like loops but considering the length of the loops
they are perfect to take care of all you needs. You can line up your
drinks and food and care less what they serve, if they serve anything. I
would carry a bottle though.

> They lined us up, and one of the veterans had some words of advice:
> "Run
> fast. Take chances. If you see a slick wooden bridge, run really hard
> over it."

I'm sure you know he was kidding. I used to tell folks to make sure
they were totally anaerobic before the big hill and they can glide to
the top while they recover.

> As I said, I run on trails all the time. However, the trails I use are
> about 5 feet wide, fairly smooth, and covered with crushed rock. These
> "trails" were essentially mud, with lots of roots and large rocks,
> covered with a layer of wet leaves. The footing was really much worse
> than I was used to, although Justin and Molly were more used to it
> from
> doing adventure races. I twisted my ankles several times each, tripped
> and almost fell several times, and fell over backwards once,
> thankfully
> catching myself with my hands instead of landing flat on my back.

If you hand only known ahead of time you could have taped your ankles
and lessoned some of the anxiety.

> The hills were far beyond anything you can find in Indy. I regularly
> run
> the steepest hill around here, and that was nothing compared to the
> hills on this course. We had planned on walking all of the steep
> hills,
> and even walking them got us really out of breath. The worst part was
> the "stone steps," which consisted of 200 to 300 deteriorating stone
> steps up and extremely steep hill. These steps were on the long loop,
> so
> you had to do them 4 times.

Did you do any hiking or stairs as part of your training?

> I felt good starting the second lap, and I picked up the pace a little
> (but not too much, since there was a long way to go). However, about 2
> miles into the second lap I realized my IT band problem was flaring
> up,
> and my left knee was getting really sore, especially on the downhills.
> I
> pretty quickly came to the conclusion that this wasn't the day to try
> to
> be a hero. If I kept running just so I could finish, I might not be
> able
> to run for 6 months. And I could have ended up not being able to run
> for
> 6 months *and* not being able to finish. I told Justin and Molly that
> this would be my last lap. They tried to talk me into one more lap,
> and
> I thought about it, but every time we started to go downhill I knew I
> was done.

While Lance may call you names for not finishing it was the right
decision to make. Live for another day.

> The winner of the race was a few minutes off the course record, and he
> beat the previous year's winner by about 5 minutes. The winner had run
> a
> 50-mile race on Friday before doing the 50K on Sunday. These
> ultra-Marathoners are a different breed!

Hatched not bred.

>I'll probably try
> to do an ultra again sometime, possibly in 2006 since I'm planning to
> do
> an Ironman-distance triathlon next September.

Hmm, swapping a sharp stick in the eye for kick in the boys. :) An IM
is equivalent to roughly a 70 mile ultra in time and effort. You might
want to think about reversing the order do the 50k or 50 mile then the
IM. Food for thought. Besides an IM take soooo much time to train with
the three act play. Have a recent picture taken of the wife and kids.

You'll be back!!

-DougF

10-28-2004, 04:30 AM

"Tim Downie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].uk> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> Something I just don't get though (and this is more to do with me than
> you)
> is why on earth anyone would want to run a multi-lap ultra??
>
> My ultra experience is very limited but I've always run races that
> take me
> somewhere I wanted to go and have always been A to B races where you
> have
> the satisfaction of actually getting somewhere.

Ask this again after you have done your 95 mile loop course and the
fluid of choice butterscotch snail urine and the food is salted whale
blubber. Once you get past 50 miles(on average) is when one's stomach
turns to **** and you would just die to pass you own cooler or crew to
get something different to eat or drink. While the esthetics are less
interesting the chances of finishing with fewer problems is dramatically
increased.

I do a fun Fat Ass 50k in January which is 5k loop that you run 10
times. Every 25 minutes or so I go passed my car and take complete care
of myself.

> (Don't get me started on those crazies who run 3,100 miles on a 1/2
> mile
> loop.)

It's not the distance that I think is crazy but the flat "ultra" short
loop.

>
> Maybe there's something I just haven't "got" about ultra running yet
> but
> somehow to run multi-lap ultras just seems to be missing the whole
> point of
> ultra running (IMO of course).

It depends on the length and terrain of the loops. There a quite a few
of these type races around. If nothing else it makes the logistics of
aid stations etc a lot easier and if accessible by ones' car or even
crew, many advantages.

For Harold's race I would guess they had one or two aid
stations(assuming the loops started in the same place and it want a Fat
Ass event). Think about a loop 50 or 100 and the number of people needed
and logistics.

-DF

10-28-2004, 04:34 AM

Sorry to hear that you couldn't finish - it sounds like a
sensible decision. Thanks for the comprehensive report.

Anthony.

10-28-2004, 04:49 AM

"Doug Freese" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> wrote in message
news:jL4gd.35250$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].rr.com...
>
> "Tim Downie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].uk> wrote in message
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>
> > Something I just don't get though (and this is more to do with me than
> > you)
> > is why on earth anyone would want to run a multi-lap ultra??
> >

<snip>
> Ask this again after you have done your 95 mile loop course and the
> fluid of choice butterscotch snail urine and the food is salted whale
> blubber. Once you get past 50 miles(on average) is when one's stomach
> turns to **** and you would just die to pass you own cooler or crew to
> get something different to eat or drink. While the esthetics are less
> interesting the chances of finishing with fewer problems is dramatically
> increased.

Oh I'm not arguing with the logistical advantages Doug, just pointing out
that if you do run one of these events, to my mind you're only out there to
rack up the miles which seems a bit pointless. A bit like turning up your
central heating and throwing open all the windows. The only people who gain
are the energy/food suppliers.

In my very limited experience this year, I've either been able to carry
everything I needed, have stuff dropped off at aid stations or had my own
support team (with my own food and drink).

Despite the logistical complications this introduces, I'd *far* rather do it
this way than run in little circles "because it's simpler".

As you say though, maybe my views will change when I've got a few more
ultras under my belt. Until then, I think you're crazy. ;-)

Tim

10-28-2004, 06:02 AM

Harold,

Sorry to hear about the DNF, but I agree that it was the smart thing
to do.

I'll be doing an ultra one of these days, but that one doesn't sound
like a good one to cut my teeth on. <g>

Which IM are you thinking about?

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

10-28-2004, 07:39 AM

Harold,

The choice of continuity or culmination rears its ugly head again. Sounds
like you made the right decision.

I regularly run through Mt. Airy Forest (roads not trails) and was surprised
to see a 50k race sign as I entered the park just before noon. I saw the
organizers at the pavilion but never came accross any runners until I was
just about to leave the park and head back home.

There was a guy that appeared to be in his 50s running parallel to the road
I was on. I asked him about the race and was surprised that they were able
to organize such a long race on the trails. He told me that it was a figure
eight course with multiple laps. I wished him luck as I moved on but then
noticed that he had turned back. Apparently my distraction caused him to
miss his turn accross the road and onto a leaf-covered trail that sloped
down the hill. I may have cost him an additional 30 seconds or so.

As I was reading your post I was waiting to see if you were the guy and that
some jerk made you miss your turn.

Good luck with your future ultras.

Mike

10-28-2004, 02:04 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Mike Tennent <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
> Sorry to hear about the DNF, but I agree that it was the smart thing
> to do.
>
> I'll be doing an ultra one of these days, but that one doesn't sound
> like a good one to cut my teeth on. <g>
>
> Which IM are you thinking about?
>

I'll be doing Pineman next year, provided I hold up my end of the deal
and make sure my wife gets time to work out, too (so far, so good).
Pineman is about 3 hours from Indy and, I think, about $250 cheaper than
an M-dot event.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

10-28-2004, 03:57 PM

On 10/28/04 5:04 PM, in article, "Harold Buck" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> Mike Tennent <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry to hear about the DNF, but I agree that it was the smart thing
>> to do.
>>
>> I'll be doing an ultra one of these days, but that one doesn't sound
>> like a good one to cut my teeth on. <g>
>>
>> Which IM are you thinking about?
>>
>
>
> I'll be doing Pineman next year, provided I hold up my end of the deal
> and make sure my wife gets time to work out, too (so far, so good).
> Pineman is about 3 hours from Indy and, I think, about $250 cheaper than
> an M-dot event.
>
> --Harold Buck
>

Harold,

Great race report and I'll chime in a second (or third) the idea that you
probably made the right call. There's a big difference between things just
not going the way you like and threatening to seriously hurt yourself.

On another note, if go through with Pineman next year you'll be in my
backyard and (more or less) on my home turf. Let me know if you need any
help avoiding the hotel problems and/or course surprises you had in Cincy
;-)

John

10-29-2004, 01:09 AM

"Doug Freese" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> wrote in message news:<jL4gd.35250$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].rr.com>.. .

> I do a fun Fat Ass 50k in January which is 5k loop that you run 10
> times. Every 25 minutes or so I go passed my car and take complete care
> of myself.

FWIW there´s a Finnish ultra running event called the
"Masochist´s Dream", it´s a 100K race on a 1800m loop...

> It's not the distance that I think is crazy but the flat "ultra" short
> loop.

....which OTOH does appear saner than the 6h race that
takes place on a 400m cinder track. To break the monotony
(and to avoid one-sided stress, I suppose) the runners
change direction every two hours.

Anders